Fiat Virgin needs help!!

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TulsaSpider
Posts: 1547
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:33 pm
Your car is a: 1978 Spyder 124 2L
Location: Tulsa, Ok

Fiat Virgin needs help!!

Post by TulsaSpider »

Greetings,
HEEEEELP!!
I am a Fiat Vigin! The first time I worked on one was today! I am 39 years old and know my way around Chevys hot rodsok. Iam no expert but I would say I am fair at wrenching.
I just bought my first convertible and my first Fiat. I think I got a good deal on it.I bought it from a very old fellow. Lemmee start at the beginning. I found a 1978 Spyder for sale locally. No details given but it caught my interest. 63,000 miles, been garaged since basically 1986.
They had put in a new transmission in the 80's and it had been sitting for 3 1/2 years or so. I went to look at it and took a battery and some starting fluid and it started up but wouldn't keep running. It sounded good. So I took a biiiiiiig chance cause it seemed like such a neat car. I towed it home. Today it did the same thing. It would run as long as I poured gas down it. I toyed with it until I pinched off the gas return line cause it seemed to be getting no gas. Voila ! It fired right up and idled!! Wohoo! It still sounded good......HOWEVER... There seemed to be oil coming out everywhere!!! on top of the motor. AND there was something gurgling in a large hose that connected below the fuel pump and ran up to the air cleaner assembly. Who can tell me what the heck is going on? It seems to have oil pressure cause when I remove the oil filler cap I can see oil squirting around in there. this seems to be one the places oil is coming out as well. And it began smoking around the hot parts too. This seems to be my MAJOR issue at the moment, there are many blocked off hoses on the carb, and hoses seem to be missing in a few other spots electrical connections have been hacked and chopped it seems...
I'll see if I can load pics of the engine as I was working on it.
Hmmm I will just link to my Photobucket!
thanks and I sure hope this isn't a major thing!!
Clark in Tulsa
1978 Spyder 1800 make that 2L! Finally making real progress!
User avatar
TulsaSpider
Posts: 1547
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:33 pm
Your car is a: 1978 Spyder 124 2L
Location: Tulsa, Ok

Re: Fiat Virgin needs help!!

Post by TulsaSpider »

OoOPs here's that photobucket link!!
http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f139/ ... lark/Fiat/
1978 Spyder 1800 make that 2L! Finally making real progress!
Jazgeek

Re: Fiat Virgin needs help!!

Post by Jazgeek »

far from being an expert here, but I'd start by trying to tighten all the bolts I could find, replace any hose that looks like it may be old or brittle, change out the fuel pumps and check the lines to the gas tank.

You may find that your oil problem may just be a simple dry gasket and it just needs to run for a while to get "wet" and re-expand.
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TulsaSpider
Posts: 1547
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:33 pm
Your car is a: 1978 Spyder 124 2L
Location: Tulsa, Ok

Re: Fiat Virgin needs help!!

Post by TulsaSpider »

I do plan to do those things but I do not think that this would cause oil to spit vertically out a 2inch ID hose, then there are those perculating/gurgling sounds coming from said hose, so it seems like something???? is amiss there, maybe it's easy??? PCV?? I have never heard of such a problem, but I have never worked on a foreign car until this afternoon!
Thanks for the message!! I have my fingers crossed!!
1978 Spyder 1800 make that 2L! Finally making real progress!
So Cal Mark

Re: Fiat Virgin needs help!!

Post by So Cal Mark »

well, you've got a bit of a task ahead of you from the looks of the photos. That engine has been leaking for awhile. Usually when you hear gurgling in the breather hose, the oil level is overfull. One reason for an owner to overfill the crankcase is to mask a broken oil pump. Take a look at the bottom of the oil pan. If it's bent on the bottom, plan to drop the pan. Or, at least drain the oil, then use a long screwdriver to poke around in the drain hole to feel for a broken pump pickup.

Check the oil level, if it's a qt overfull, oil will be forced up the breather hose as rpms climb. At 4000rpm you will have a gush of oil out the hose. In addition, that pressure will cause leaks at many different spots.

If that car came into my shop, I'd suggest removing the engine to clean and reseal the entire thing. It would be cost efficient to do it that way rather than attempting it with the engine in the car.

After sitting that long, all the hoses should be replaced as well as the fuel pump
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TulsaSpider
Posts: 1547
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:33 pm
Your car is a: 1978 Spyder 124 2L
Location: Tulsa, Ok

Re: Fiat Virgin needs help!!

Post by TulsaSpider »

Hmmmm Well I know the oil is not overfilled it reads on min on the dipstick. It seems the front of the pan is dented some, as I read is extremely common. If I stick a screwdriver in the drain hole am I feeling for the actual oil pickup that is detached? I don't have the facilities to pull the motor right now.
You said "usually" so are there more concerns? The inside of the motor looks extremely clean. I took that as a good sign too. I should replace the fuel pump? it seems to work ok. Should I replace with an electic unit?
Thanks for your words of wisdom!
Clark
1978 Spyder 1800 make that 2L! Finally making real progress!
Jazgeek

Re: Fiat Virgin needs help!!

Post by Jazgeek »

your oil will register ok even if your oil pickup is broken off. it will only start to fluctuate as you rev and go around corners. This is what happened to mine with the previous owner. He did not catch this problem until quite late and by that time had already caused one of the bearings in the lower case to loosen and now I have a deep engine tap tap that sounds like valve's. I plan to wait until it's completely unbearable before transplanting a new engine in or having the crank rebuilt.

even if your hoses look good, they still may be bad and it never hurts to replace the fuel pump they're pretty cheap and while you're at it, throw in a fuel filter.
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TulsaSpider
Posts: 1547
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:33 pm
Your car is a: 1978 Spyder 124 2L
Location: Tulsa, Ok

Re: Fiat Virgin needs help!!

Post by TulsaSpider »

Could it be as simple as the wrong oil or oil filter? Also does this engine not have a PCV system???? If not why not?
1978 Spyder 1800 make that 2L! Finally making real progress!
User avatar
TulsaSpider
Posts: 1547
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:33 pm
Your car is a: 1978 Spyder 124 2L
Location: Tulsa, Ok

Re: Fiat Virgin needs help!!

Post by TulsaSpider »

I was surfing around on here and found this post, what does this mean????? Where?what is it? It sounds like what I am experiencing!!

Quote:
I also had the weeping of oil around the dipstick. Occasionally, the dipstick would even rise up in the tube during a drive, oil spraying all over the place.

Cleaning the vapor/oil separator cured every one of them. It's a pain to get to with the intake manifold installed, but it needs to stay clean or the crankcase pressurizes and oil comes out everywhere.

Ernie
1978 Spyder 1800 make that 2L! Finally making real progress!
Danno

Re: Fiat Virgin needs help!!

Post by Danno »

underneath the intake manifold it's pictured here:
Image
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TulsaSpider
Posts: 1547
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:33 pm
Your car is a: 1978 Spyder 124 2L
Location: Tulsa, Ok

Re: Fiat Virgin needs help!!

Post by TulsaSpider »

Ok I spent about 8 hours with her today. I drained the oil this.... is interesting, although the dipstick measured at minimum I measured the oil out into a gallon jug and also filled up a quart as well PLUS what was in the oil filter. My manual says it holds 4 US quarts. Is this absolute and unvaried??? By my measure it had at least a quart and a half too much oil in it !!! Am I correct???? Is this the source of the oil spitting up then!?!? What an easy fix, I sure hope so!!! Does it have the wrong dipstic maybe?? Wierd... I also dropped the oil pan, sorta... couldn't get it all the way out but I felt around in there and the pickup is still in place assuming it is supposed to be pointing back toward the flywheel.
What oil filter should be used? and it's a bit fuzzy on what weight of oil to use too, it just reccomends Castrol GTX..
I also did a compression test (yes before I drained to oil) hehe
Cylinder 1 held 112 PSI
Cylinder II held 125 PSI
Cylinder III held 120 PSI
Cylinder IV held 105 PSI
These numbers sound good. Please let me know if they are ok for this motor.
Also what motor do I have? It says 1800 on the back so that means 1800 CC motor??

Also this is what my cowl says, can someone tell me what all this means???
DGM 10656 om
FIAT 124CS1
Motor 132A1 0406
1910298

Is there anything good or bad here I should be aware of? What info do I generally need when I order parts? There seems to be a few different options in the parts books.

Whew! What a day! I did get to drive her around the block, it was running rough but it was fun!!
Thanks so much for your help and wish nme luck tomorrow when I fill it back up with oil and a fresh filter to see what happens!
0449
1978 Spyder 1800 make that 2L! Finally making real progress!
So Cal Mark

Re: Fiat Virgin needs help!!

Post by So Cal Mark »

I believe the factory spec is 4.75 qts with a filter. I always put in 5. Mark your dipstick if you have 4 qts in it, then mark it again at 5 qts. That small amt overfull is not a problem. I choose oil weight dependent on operating temperature and amount of wear the motor has. Heavier oil for tired motors and warm weather.
Your car should have an 1800, but motor swaps are common on these cars. Get the id from the left side of the motor to be sure
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TulsaSpider
Posts: 1547
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:33 pm
Your car is a: 1978 Spyder 124 2L
Location: Tulsa, Ok

Re: Fiat Virgin needs help!!

Post by TulsaSpider »

How are those compression numbers?
1978 Spyder 1800 make that 2L! Finally making real progress!
So Cal Mark

Re: Fiat Virgin needs help!!

Post by So Cal Mark »

the 105 is borderline marginal. It's hard to get an engine to run smoothly at idle and low rpm if the compression gets below 100
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TulsaSpider
Posts: 1547
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:33 pm
Your car is a: 1978 Spyder 124 2L
Location: Tulsa, Ok

Re: Fiat Virgin needs help!!

Post by TulsaSpider »

I'll take that I suppose! I put 4.5 quarts in today and it barely registered on the bottom of the dipstick, and that seemed to take care of the oil spitting and such. I also put some fresh gas in it, warmed it up and took it for a spin! It ran great! I ran it throught the gears and got it up to about 50 or so I'd say and it purred! I shouted for joy!! The idle was pretty high it seemed to me however and I couldn't adjust it down. Other than that it ran great!
I did discover that NOTHING on the dash works....
No spedometer no tach no fuel guage....UGH
No brake lights either, all the other lights seemed to work.....
Today was a good day!
Clark
1978 Spyder 1800 make that 2L! Finally making real progress!
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