New 71 owner with choke/accelerator questions

[grantgsr]

Hello all,

I just brought home a 1971 spider with the 1608 engine. Most everything is stock as far as I can tell, but I'm completely new to Fiats so I can't be sure. Anyway, a previous owner disconnected the choke and I wondered if anyone had a picture of how/where this gets connected to the carb. Also, the accelerator linkage is somehow wrong. The guy I bought it from said another owner broke the end of the cable that connects to the carb and therefore pulled a little more through to reconnect, with the result being the gas pedal doesn't have as much travel as it should and, therefore, I have only about 2/3 of a gas pedal. All the online catalogs I've seen don't indicate there was any cable employed on the 71 setup, just a rod. So, does anyone have a picture of the correct setup coming from the firewall and connecting to the carb? Where can I get the part/parts I need? I will likely be tinkering with it tonight and will try to take and post some pictures of what I'm talking about. Any guidance will be appreciated. Also, does anyone have any easier instructions than the Haynes manual for changing the timing belt? Is that "special tool" really necessary to hold the pulleys in place? Thanks,

Grant

[rlux4]

Hi Grant, congratulations on an excellent decision, buying a Spider. If you haven't done so already, you should go to Brad Artigue's Fiat page, he has made available for download wiring diagrams, and in particular interest in your case, Fiat Spider Engine Maintenance and Modification. It has a chapter devoted to carburetors, identification, schematics, etc.
You'll find them here: http://www.artigue.com/fiat/
No, you don't need a special tool to hold the pulleys. Line up the TDC marks on the back of the pulleys with the marks on the engine. Note the positioning of the auxilliary shaft pulley. The same relative position needs to be maintained to keep the lobe on the aux. shaft from hitting the bottom of the rod. The three pulleys shouldn't move while you take off the belt, if they do, just put them back into correct positioning.
I hope I got this right, if not, don't blame my teacher, Ventura Ace, just wait a little and someone will pipe in to add corrections.
Ron

[So Cal Mark]

the original throttle linkage wasn't very good on your model, and many owners have switched over to a cable set up. The problem with you oem set up was the rod was anchored to the firewall. When the engine would move under load, the throttle would open causing a less than smooth acceleration curve.
Can you post some pics of what you have? Both the pedal and cable to the carb

[grantgsr]

I was messing all evening with that timing belt, so I haven't yet taken pictures. But I will try to post some tommorrow afternoon. I will also post some of the carb and the disconnected choke cable because I really want to reconnect that as I suspect doing so will help a problem I have. The car will start up cold but die very soon thereafter. If I then try to start it again, it will turn over and over but not quite start. Then I pour a little gas in the carb and it starts right up, continues to idle well and if I let it continue to warm up I can shut it off and it will then start right back up easily. Am I right to think that having the choke disconnected is contributing to this issue? Anyway, that's all for tonight. Thanks.

Grant

[So Cal Mark]

the choke may solve your problem, but I'm confused; is it the throttle cable or choke cable that has been shortened?

[mdrburchette]

It looks like he's got two problems. One being the choke cable is disconnected and the other being the linkage rods were swapped to a throttle cable and shortened. I wonder if it has the original carb on it? I'll try taking pics of the setup in the 72 I'm taking apart. Hopefully everything under the air cleaner is stock.

[grantgsr]

Ok, sorry its taken me so long to get back, but I was completing an evening 5 session welding class that just finshed tonight. Anyway, yes, I have two separate issues: One is the disconnected choke cable, and the other is the screwed up accelerator linkage. Here is a link to pictures of both, including just a couple of pictures of the weber carb for reference:
http://71fiatspider.shutterfly.com/acti ... Fg&notag=1

Regarding the choke I just need to know where/how to reconnect it. The accelerator cable/linkage is more screwy. From what I can tell, the broken/shortened cable I'm refering to runs through the firewall to a push/pull switch under the dash to the right of the steering wheel (looking and moving just like a choke cable switch), and it limits the forward travel of the lever attached to the gas pedal linkage. Can anyone tell from the pictures if this cable is, in fact, too short (it is let out to its max in the pictures)? Can I just replace the cable with something similar (and does anybody have any suggestions for a place or particular kind)? If I replace the cable and it has more length, will that increase the travel of the gas pedal? Will it screw up the accelerator linkage or mess up the idle (it currently idles at about 850 - 1000 rpm when warm). Again, any and all help or comments will be appreciated.

Finally, when I get the timing belt installed, other than checking both cam pulleys, the crankshaft pulley and the auxillary pulley for their correct alignment/timing marks, what else can I do to make sure everything is lined up as it is supposed to be before I attempt to start the car?

By the way, do any of you live near Louisville, KY?

[rlux4]

You'll want all the timing marks lined up before you put on the belt. The aux. pulley mark should be pointed toward the tensioner bolt (11:00 o'clock?) and the other three on their marks. loosen the nut on the tensioner bearing, use a crow bar or long heavy screwdriver to move the bearing against the spring tension. Hold it there and tighten the nut down, then you can slip the belt on. Loosen the tensioner bearing nut and it should tighten up the belt. Tighten the nut. The pulleys shouldn't move on their own while you do this. Rotate the engine by hand 180 deg.. Loosen the tensioner bearing nut again, watch to see if the belt gets tighter. Tighten the nut. Do this one more time, tighten everything up and you should be good to go. You should be able to twist the timing belt 90 deg., any more and it's not tight enough.
Ron

[So Cal Mark]

so, your carb has a hand operated throttle cable, a choke cable and the accelerator linkage? You could just disconnect the throttle cable if that is what is limiting your throttle travel. The need for an additional throttle cable is sort of questionable anyway.
As for the t-belt, make sure you turn the engine by hand at least two complete revolutions, check the timing marks then start the engine.

[rlux4]

As for the t-belt, make sure you turn the engine by hand at least two complete revolutions, check the timing marks then start the engine.

180+180=360; 360=one revolution. Oops, Thanks Mark.
Ron

[grantgsr]

Guys, thanks for the replies so far. Does anyone have any thoughts on the pictures I linked, to give me some guidance as to where the choke cable should be connected and whether that hand throttle cable is, in fact, too short? Also, how will a longer cable, or even just disconnecting the hand throttle cable altogether (and a resulting longer gas pedal travel) affect my idle? Thanks,

Grant

[mdrburchette]

The hand throttle cable is not a necessity. If it's too short it may be keeping your throttle plate open a bit so you may need to readjust the carb settings a bit. The choke cable on mine is disconnected so I can't help you on that.

[So Cal Mark]

here are some pix from a car I have in the shop. The throttle cable is missing but the choke cable is attached and it still has the stock throttle links

[grantgsr]

Mark, thanks very, very much for the pictures. I can tell your choke cable goes about where I figured mine might. Making it confusing is that there is no bracket to hold the cable. Does it run through that little hole just under your filter/cleaner area and tighten down with that small bolt on the side? I saw that bolt and hole on mine, but was afraid that was something to do with actually tuning the carb, which I'm not ready for yet.

Also, I've disconnected the hand throttle now. But if I want to get full travel with the pedal, won't I need to adjust the linkage at the carb? And by doing that, I would think it would necessitate adjusting the idle significantly one way or the other, since it currently idles fine. Right?

[So Cal Mark]

the choke cable does go thru that boss with the holddown bolt. As you can tell, this car has an added bracket to support the cable.
Have someone hold the gas pedal down and then look down the throat of the carb to see if the throttle plate is wide open. There isn't much (or any) linkage adjustment. It's possible that the gas pedal arm is bent to prevent full travel. It can easily be bent back up if that's the case. The only way you would need to readjust idle speed is if the throttle lever is not contacting the idle speed screw