Another Dyno Day in So Cal-this Saturday

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:28 pm

Hey guys!

I am setting up another event at the same location next Saturday (Oct. 23rd).

Since the only reason I was able to attend the last event was because of Mark, I figured it was only right that I extend an invitation to you Fiat guys as well. Hopefully anyone who missed out on the last event will be able to make this one.

Same deal as last time:

$50 for 3-4 Pulls with AFR
Rage Performance
8455 Loma Pl.
Upland, CA. 91786
(909)608-7123
9:00 AM until everyone is run

My personal info:

Justin Poole
(951)750-2507 Call or Text
J.Poole88*gmail.com

Please contact me via directly with any questions. I will try to check this thread daily, but email will definitely elicit a response.

Here is another link for more info: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...03#post2565203

ventura ace · Post by **ventura ace** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:16 am

Thanks for setting this up Justin (and Mark). I will see you there.

Alvon

ventura ace · Post by **ventura ace** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:32 pm

Anybody else on this Forum going to the Dyno Day tomorrow in Upland?

Alvon

fiasco · Post by **fiasco** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:31 am

I'll be working on carpet and dash most of the day and wiring, if I get that far along.

Alvon - if you want to stop by coming or going, I'd love to give you a live tour of the '69, and maybe grab a bite somewhere.

-- se

fishboy · Post by **fishboy** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:35 am

I am going to try! I just found the post now.

ventura ace · Post by **ventura ace** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:47 am

fiasco wrote:I'll be working on carpet and dash most of the day and wiring, if I get that far along.

Alvon - if you want to stop by coming or going, I'd love to give you a live tour of the '69, and maybe grab a bite somewhere.

-- se

Sorry that I missed your post Steve -- not until I was already there and back. Would have liked to see your new ride. Had an interesting morning at the Dyno shop. Would have been more interesting if the guy operating it knew how to get the A/F ratio measurement operating properly. I ended up making several changes in jetting of the carbs since his equipment told me I was too lean (18:1, yeh, right!), when the real problem was his equipment, so most of the pulls were done with the settings too rich even though his equipment told me it was too lean. Ignoring that problem, I did get a little bit of worthwhile data. I learned that my air filters are fairly restrictive at rpms over 4000. Up to 4000 rpm, it really didn't make much difference, since the air flow needed to run at those speeds is less. But up at the higher end it made about 19 horsepower difference running with the air filters vs without. I'll post a plot later when I get a chance. The peak horsepower at the wheels was 101 hp at 5800 rpm, with 97 ft-lbs max torque. Looking at the data, I'm estimating that it would likely be about 103 - 104 hp if I put the jets back to a proper A/F ratio for this set-up, or about 125 engine hp.

Bill from Hermosa beach was also there, with his daughter Elizabeth, but had to leave since things were taking so long to get all the equipment operating properly for testing. Good friend Gary Poage was on hand to watch and assist with his valuable knowledge. Mark Allison dropped by for a few minutes, but had other commitments for the day. Most of the cars where Mercedes and Audis from a group that Justin Poole (Mercedes 500 with nitrous boost) had put together. They were a nice bunch of fellows, many who like to drag race their cars. Thanks again Justin for arranging for the test day!

Alvon

halg · Post by **halg** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:04 pm

Alvon:
To bad they were having trouble with the equipment . I imagine you didn't get to make cam timing adjustments like you were hoping for. We found during the last dyno day that most air cleaners were very restrictive. Maybe after I get my Coupe better sorted out we can do it again. 101 is a pretty fair number for a car that is going to be driven. More might make the car more difficult to drive.
Hal

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:32 pm

Hi Alvon

There is a air filter i used before that is very free breathing and low profile enough to fit under your hood
from ITG i posted this before for someone else sometime ago they have a number of sizes you would need
the smaller lower profile unit for the hood to close or you could go for the look that the 500-850 guys proping
up the hood with a few rods and fit a really big filter and scoops . Here is a link to ITGs website i think they
have some of the best filters for dual carb setups . As far as your HP the jetting can effect the power out
http://www.itgairfilters.com/megaflow.a ... rMake=FIAT
http://www.itgairfilters.com/content2.a ... n=megaflow

ventura ace · Post by **ventura ace** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:23 pm

Thanks, Daniel. I'll check the ITG filters out. I currently have a foam based element from Pierce Manifolds, but I can see that the ITG is certainly a different design. It may take some experimentation with both of these designs wtih different types of air horns to come up with the optimum design that would fit in the limited space under my flat hood.

I was able to get some torque / hp data with different jetting, even though their A/F readings were bogus. The trouble was that the technician kept shutting things down in the middle of a pull because he said it was way too lean (even though we could see fuel vapors blowing out the tailpipe, and smell it, too!). The data suggests that 130 main jets would be optimum for this engine (was using 125's before). HP dropped off with 135 mains. I didn't get a chance to fiddle with the air correctors. I may try to find another dyno shop closer to where I live, and one that can provide believable A/F ratio readings.

Alvon

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:38 pm

I'm surprised to hear about the a/f ratio issue. I've dynoed several cars there and haven't had any issues with readings. On the previous dyno day I'm sure the readings were accurate because we picked up hp with a/f adjustments. The dynojet machine is considered the most accurate on the market

ventura ace · Post by **ventura ace** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:56 pm

I don't know. The A/F stayed pegged on 18.0 (the max reading for his instrumentation apparently) most of the time, then sporadically would come down during some of the pulls. I think it had to do with how the sniffer was postiioned in my tailpipe/muffler, that it wasn't picking up the main flow of exhaust gases, and was sensing the outside air. It acted the same way on a 400 hp mercedes that was tested immediately after mine. I'm certainly no expert on their equipment, but I that's my best guess. In hindsight, I should have pressed the issue and asked the tech to resolve it, but he was insistent that it was my engine that was the problem, and he kept reminding me how much he needed to charge me for another pull or another tweak on my jetting (which takes about 3 minutes tops). Then, I felt bad for the people behind me patiently waiting for their turn. So, I called it quits and asked for the results -- I did get some worthwhile info, and I know better how to prepare for an appointment with a dyno the next time.

Alvon

halg · Post by **halg** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:10 pm

Alvon:
I forgot to ask if you got your new exhaust done before the dyno day. How did it sound? Do you think it made a difference?
Hal

fiasco · Post by **fiasco** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:10 pm

ventura ace wrote:
fiasco wrote:I'll be working on carpet and dash most of the day and wiring, if I get that far along.

Alvon - if you want to stop by coming or going, I'd love to give you a live tour of the '69, and maybe grab a bite somewhere.

-- se
Sorry that I missed your post Steve -- not until I was already there and back. Would have liked to see your new ride.

Ah well, next time. At the very least, we can connect at the Turkey Trot again this year. Right now the interior is all out - 80% of the insulation is on the floor, roll of carpet in the garage, and some oak plywood waiting to be formed into new dash panels. And I've got some tedious hours to spend untangling the wiring. In short - back to the world of Fiats.

-- se

ventura ace · Post by **ventura ace** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:52 pm

halg wrote:Alvon:
I forgot to ask if you got your new exhaust done before the dyno day. How did it sound? Do you think it made a difference?
Hal

Yes, I do have a 2" line from about 1/2 way back to a new Imco reverse flow turbo performance muffler, which is certainly less restrictive than the 1.5" section that was in there previously. The seat of the pants feel was that it picked up performance, but I didn't have a before and after Dyno run to put any hard numbers on it. I'm trying to get used to the quite noticeable throaty exhaust note. It's not loud very loud compared to many I've heard, but maybe a little louder than I like. I may put in a resonator to tone it down a bit. Give me a week or two of driving with it to know if I get used to it, or if it bugs me enought to change it.

Alvon

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:00 am

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Re: Another Dyno Day in So Cal-this Saturday

Postby Daniel on Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:32 pm
Hi Alvon

There is a air filter i used before that is very free breathing and low profile enough to fit under your hood
from ITG i posted this before for someone else sometime ago they have a number of sizes you would need
the smaller lower profile unit for the hood to close or you could go for the look that the 500-850 guys proping
up the hood with a few rods and fit a really big filter and scoops . Here is a link to ITGs website i think they
have some of the best filters for dual carb setups . As far as your HP the jetting can effect the power out
http://www.itgairfilters.com/megaflow.a ... rMake=FIAT
http://www.itgairfilters.com/content2.a ... n=megaflow

I didn't get to finish this my keyboard was locking up i could only copy and paste at that point !
The Computer Demons were messing with me i had to use a crucifix garlic and holy water among other things
to get rid of them ! AVG & SuperAntiSpyWare didn't work . If this computer isn't cured by thursday night it will
be burned at the stack high noon friday and shot with a silver bullet

What i was trying to say if your jetting is off a little you might be more then a few HP lower then what your
car is able to pull . Your engine should have more HP then that with those cams, pistons & 40 IDFs should be
closer to 140 .Try 4 degrees Advance on your intake cam - 1 Degree Advance on the Exhaust this should be
optimum setting for those cams i think you'll like this .

Sadly the short air filters limit using air horns the diameter across the opening of the Velocity Stacks is the
distance or amount of room needed above them as well to perform the way intended !

The internal cubic Inches inside the ITG Filter is far more then the dual filter setup your running also the spacing
around the Venturis is greater just a thought i get 0 out of ITG Air Filters for promoting there product .