Another poor running FI Spider... :(

[wachuko]

Last night I was able to start the car and I thought life was good. This morning before heading to work I try to start it again and it behaved poorly.

Does not hold idle, if I try to accelerate it I can hear some small backfires/puffs, etc. Thinking back it would have been easier to swap engine and harness with the parts car from the get go. That one is running perfect... anyway, back to this one, I got a hard-copy of the doc from Brad Artigue, I will go over the car using that as a guide.

And yes, checked timing again, swapped the aux air regulator... will continue to swap parts until I nail the culprit.

I will take a video and share it to get your help on the diagnosis.

Thank you all!

[seventil]

Good luck Jaime!

Quick question, regarding Brad Artigue's FIAT engine maintenance doc (I assume that's the one you're referring to) - know where an online version is? His site has been down for a few months.

Thanks!

[narfire]

Well the good news is once the FI is running well it usually stays that way for some time touch wood ect.
My method when first starting a new engine was to make sure there is spark at the plugs at the right time. This involved the mag pick up,which I think you have changed, check cap and rotor,timing,#4, new plugs. The engine I recently put in my car had just about all of above except new plugs,car ran like poo,and when I did change the plugs,found one was cracked and shorted to the head,ran like a dream after changing.Had an issue with the leads in the past and changed them as well.
If the spark is there then I went to the fuel system, checked the air valve by putting it in the freezer and seeing if the hole opened up,should be closed when warm. injectors,used a noids light,to see if they are firing(used the GM tracker size from snap on) FI grounds are on well.All sensor connections are on. The one on the water "T" came loose and the car ran better with it clipped on tight.
Any air getting in between the AFM and plenum? either cracks or loose hose connections? TPS set right? Brads A. notes tells how to check that with a multi meter. fuel at the cold start valve... should be a brief squirt and then off.
I suspect you'll have it sorted in no time tonight, just bring your pillow if you need a quick snooze..
Good luck James

[wachuko]

Good luck Jaime!

Quick question, regarding Brad Artigue's FIAT engine maintenance doc (I assume that's the one you're referring to) - know where an online version is? His site has been down for a few months.

Thanks!

Downloads fine for me. Try again with this link:

http://mirafiori.com/faq/fiatFI_may2002.pdf

[wachuko]

Well the good news is once the FI is running well it usually stays that way for some time touch wood ect.
My method when first starting a new engine was to make sure there is spark at the plugs at the right time. This involved the mag pick up,which I think you have changed, check cap and rotor,timing,#4, new plugs. The engine I recently put in my car had just about all of above except new plugs,car ran like poo,and when I did change the plugs,found one was cracked and shorted to the head,ran like a dream after changing.Had an issue with the leads in the past and changed them as well.
If the spark is there then I went to the fuel system, checked the air valve by putting it in the freezer and seeing if the hole opened up,should be closed when warm. injectors,used a noids light,to see if they are firing(used the GM tracker size from snap on) FI grounds are on well.All sensor connections are on. The one on the water "T" came loose and the car ran better with it clipped on tight.
Any air getting in between the AFM and plenum? either cracks or loose hose connections? TPS set right? Brads A. notes tells how to check that with a multi meter. fuel at the cold start valve... should be a brief squirt and then off.
I suspect you'll have it sorted in no time tonight, just bring your pillow if you need a quick snooze..
Good luck James

Thank you James. Will put those suggestions to good use.

New spark plugs... but those are platinum units I got from IAP, some cars just don't like the platinum units, not sure if the engine in the Spider is one of those. I might just go back to the ones that were in the car before (also Bosch units but not platinum)...

I have a new set of spark plug wires that are installed in the spare engine so I will swap those, new dist cap and rotor in place, new mag pick up.

Need to check the timing with a gun, all I have done so far is validate the pulleys are aligned with the marks.

[wachuko]

I changed the throttle positioning sensor (actually, the whole intake since I could not loosen the TPS bolts ), plug wires...

On to check timing... man! those headers are getting hot and glowing bright red. I am guessing that the car is running extremely rich... anyway, let me try a more systematic approach to the trouble shooting.

Additional ideas welcomed. Video in a few minutes.

[ORFORD2004]

If the headers come red, usually it's because the engine run lean not rich. If the engine run rich, you will see black smoke coming out from the exhaust

[wachuko]

If the headers come red, usually it's because the engine run lean not rich. If the engine run rich, you will see black smoke coming out from the exhaust

Thank you for clarifying that. I have been trying a few different things...

I installed the distributor from the other engine, made sure the TPS was position correctly (using the instructions from Brad Artigue's FIAT engine maintenance doc), replaced the cold start injector, checked the timing and it is at 10 degrees btdc, rod in the distributor is moving...

No longer do a I see a lean condition, headers are back to normal... but the car is not running right...

A few videos:

[ORFORD2004]

When the engine is cold or hot???

[wachuko]

When the engine is cold or hot???

I did all this with the engine at normal operating temperature (around 190 degrees)...

Video is loading, should be avail in a few minutes...

[wachuko]

Starting to work on it this afternoon... change plugs, spark plug wires...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNRjk8oPn-g

After changing the distributor... the oil burning that you see is some oil from the distributor hole that fell on the headers...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-__Hp4CL1HA

Here we go... after all the changes, no longer a running lean condition (thank you John for the clarification), but still running poor...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2XtOl7_rHE

Here we were checking Idle Speed Screw...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnKsDwxENF0

[ORFORD2004]

I have a question. The hose on the left side of your hand is connected to where? Because i don't have any on my car. And i will suspect missfire. Check your distributor cap and plug.

[wachuko]

I have a question. The hose on the left side of your hand is connected to where? Because i don't have any on my car. And i will suspect missfire. Check your distributor cap and plug.

If you are referring to video MOV01910.MPG, that is a coolant hose that goes to the top of the intake...

Distributor cap and rotor are new, and when I changed the distributor I did not use the same rotor and cap, I used another new set I had... just in case....

[ORFORD2004]

One is connected in ther front of the car near the spark plug but the other one go in the back to where exactely?

[ORFORD2004]

Is it possible that i don't have any???