Trailing arms

[halg]

I am trying to gain understanding about the rebuilding of the trailing arms. From what I have read here the short uppers are rebuildable, the early long lowers(hourglass ends) are also rebuildable. The late (straight ends) are not rebuildable. The late arms appear to have an outer sleeve containing the rubber bushing. Is it just that no one is making a replacement for the late arms? It is an assumption that the bushing could be removed. Maybe I could make my own polyurethane replacement for the late arms. I assume that the houreglass end arms go together like old shocks, tapered bushings from both sides with a sleeve of the proper length to limit squeeze. I don't remember seeing any bushings listed for the lower arms at IAP, hat is the only vendor where I have looked for parts.
Hal

[halg]

PS
I guess I could do it like my Silver V8 Spider and make my own arms with Heim joints. Since it won't be a daily driver the harsher ride might not be to bad.
Hal

[pope]

Hal, you are correct that there is a couple of mm thick plastic that surrounds the rubber on late model trailing arms. I think they were just pressed on.

[halg]

IAP doesn't list ant replacemant bushings for trailing arms. Performance Fiat only lists bushings for the short upper arms and panhard rod, in both rubber and polyurethane. Does anyone list bushings for early long lower or are the upper bushings just being used?
Hal

[manoa matt]

Hal,

try this link: http://www.bitsofitaly.com/parts-fiat-lancia

In case you don't already know: The early(69-78) arms and the late (79-85) arms are the same dimensions and interchanceable. The later arms are stronger than the earlier arms, but the early arms are rebuildable.

The real question: Stronger stock late arms, vs, early arms with poly bushings, which is better?

[ventura ace]

Hal, when I redid mine about 5 years ago, the upper TA's were relatively inexpensive, so I just bought new ones. The lower TA's cost about 3 times as much as the uppers, so I decided to rebuild them, as well as the panhard rod. The early lower TA's have a 2-piece rubber bushing that is installed from each side, over a steel sleeve. Two big washers are then pressed on from the outside, to squeeze the 2 rubber pieces tightly into the hourglass shaped hollow ends of the TA's. The washers are retained by peening over the inside of the steel sleeve, to make the sleeve diameter bigger on the ends, and trapping the washers. It is almost impossible to remove the washers without destroying the thin-walled ends of the steel sleeves, and the washers, themselves. Because of this, hardly anybody rebuilds them, and the replacement rubber bushings are in very short supply, if you can find them at all.

I had a local machinist make me some more steel collars to replace the ones that I removed. I was finally able to track down some 2-piece rubber bushings, and did a decent job of rebuilding the TA's.

I believe the later model lower TA's had a on-piece hourglass shaped bushing, that is easier to remove and replace, and it seems that the bushings are available (see Matt's link to bitsofitaly.com). For this design, you would press out the inner steel sleeve, then you can press out the bushing (squirting some lube between the bushing and the steel that surrounds it will help to make it slip out easier). Installation is just the opposite. Press the bushing in place, then press the steel collar down the center. The panhard rod is the same. I may be able to find some old pictures to send you. I'll search.

Alvon

[halg]

Why is it never easy? Here is what I have, 4 sets of short uppers, 3 sets of long lowers(early) 1 set of long lowers(late), 5 panhard bars. The short uppers appear to have 2 styles, one has 1 end with washers swaged to the bushing and one has no washers. When you press the first style apart it has 2 seperate tapered rubber bushings. The other style has an hourglass 1 piece rubber bushing. The 5 panhard bars are 3 different shapes. 1 is small and straight, 1 is larger, straight with a flattened center for rearend clearance, the 3rd is offset end to end. The small straight bar is what is right for my car so that is what I have taken apart. All the panhard bars have washers swaged to the center bushing on both ends. By no means do I think this is all the variations. The long late lowers have a pressed in sleeved bushing. Now I have to verify what replacement parts are available that fit what bars, and what fits my car. Presumably everything except the offset panhard bars will fit my car.
Hal

[halg]

The saga continues. I actually have 3 different lower arms. The small diameter(early) has 2 piece bushings. The first late lower is larger in diameter and has an hourglass bushing the second late same diameter with larger ends with sleeved bushings(I didn't want to press these apart). It almost appears that Energy Suspension shock bushings #9.8143 might be useable for all the arms that I have taken apart. I don't know about the late offset panhard bars. Even though they won't fit my car I guess I could press them apart to see how they are made, if anyone cares.
Hal

[halg]

I think I would like to go with polyurethane bushings. Has anyone actually tried to press the hourglass shaped busings. I have concern with poly deforming as much as necessary to complete the installation.
Hal

[halg]

Here are my completed bushings for both upper and lower trailing arms and panhard bar. I was able to find washers of the proper thickness to make up the differences in thickness of the upper and lower arms.
Hal

[pope]

Excellent post on the trailing arms, Hal. I have the late model lower arms and the bolt that goes through is rusted in. I cut the bolt ends off to remove it from the car and wonder what I can do to repair it. I wish the end could be press out and replaces with something, but what. I might have to replace with new arm.
Anyone have an idea how to remove?

[ventura ace]

Press the inner steel sleeve out, then you should be able to press the hourglass shaped bushings out. To rebuild, do the opposite. The parts slide out easier if you can find a way to open up a little crevice and squirt some lube between the steel and rubber. When putting the parts in, you don't want to lube them much, or they'll continue to rotate when in use. I think I put a little water on them to help them slip back in easier (I can't remember).

Alvon

[pope]

Alvon, this is a late model trailing arm that does not have the hour glass shaped bushings. The bushing is a self contained, round, and press fit.

[manoa matt]

Pope, those can't be pressed out, even if, there are no replacement bushings.

I'd drill out the bolt. Start with a small bit about 1/16" or 1/8" and successively drill larger diameter until you drill through the bolt. The arm should be fine after you get that out.

The bolt is hardened so it may burn up your bits. Any shop should be able to press the bolt out of the sleeve for a couple of bucks.

If you can't get that bolt out and you need a new arm. I know I have several of the earlier ones. I had a set of the later ones but I may have sold the good one, (other arm had a bend in it). I'll have to check.

[ventura ace]

Alvon, this is a late model trailing arm that does not have the hour glass shaped bushings. The bushing is a self contained, round, and press fit.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with that one then. I'm thinking that you can support the steel bushing with a socket or the other trailing arm and give some big whacks on the bolt to dislodge it. Use rust penetrant to help break up any rust between the two, and use a drift or smaller bolt to act as a drift when smacking the bolt. Once it starts to move, you should be able to twist it and hit it to break up more of the rust and get it out.

Alvon