Detroit goes electric

[pope]

GM plans to select the lithium-ion battery plant site by the end of June with production starting in early 2010. The facility would be the size of a small engine plant and a portion would feature a "clean room environment."
GM executives and analysts have said it makes sense to have the plant in southeastern Michigan because the Volt's engines will be built in Flint and the vehicle assembled at GM's Detroit/Hamtramck plant.

[mbouse]

not to mention that after GM files chapter 11, everything will be paid for by the masses

[So Cal Mark]

the masses are already paying for everything at GM. Bankruptcy will allow them to default on all of their suppliers and pension obligations, thereby screwing over everyone that worked for them or builds the parts for their cars

[mdrburchette]

But never fear, fellas. GM will once again be on top of it's game. People will be flocking into the dealerships to pick out their very own 40 mile range electric car until they realize it'll cost them twice as much than running a gas engine because of the Cap and Trade tax.

[pope]

Denise, just want to make clear that the Volt will be infinite electric range. 40 is the range before a small engine generator kicks on to replenish the batteries and it doesnt stay on all the time. So really, you could just run the thing on gas to recharge the car. If you wanted, you would not have to plug it in. You would take a hit in energy economy, but still better than a car powered by gas.

Mark, you are right about pension obligations. Over the past 70 years, the government has forced unions on the car makers. It did make a viable middle class. Then the government allows foreign manufactures to come here and not have to unionize or pay pensions. Do you think that the american car companies can compete with this? Either make them all unionized with pensions or drop the unions and allow them convert the pension plan to a 401k for the workers with no more contributions from the company.I dont care which, just allow them to compete on an equal foot. Its the legecy payment that is killing the american industry.

[So Cal Mark]

the upside of your battery factory is the job creation, the downside is that the creation of lithium-ion batteries is the most pollution-creating process known to man at this time. So non-union workers making minimum wage with no healthcare will have fatal illnesses to deal with. I'm glad this one isn't going to be in Calif, we've got enough issues with perchorlate laced drinking water

[mbouse]

NUKE would be more polluting, but point well taken.

lith-ion batteries are NOT the answer to our nation's energy 'crisis'

a general and complete shift to fuel efficient vehicles would save ka-zillions in fuel, emissions and cleanup. what does it take to get us there? the same thing that drives the battery crowds... $5.00 per gallon gasoline.

[pope]

Yah...but we use fresh Great Lakes water in our batteries, not salt water, so they are less toxic to start with.

They had the Ford Fusion Hybrid on TV this morning which is a mid size car that gets 720 miles to a tank of gas. Works on electric and/or gas. And the cost is around $25,000 with fed rebate. On sale now.

[mdrburchette]

That sounds good, especially for a Ford. I understand the industry is in the developing stages with battery technology and I'm sure it will get better with time.

[So Cal Mark]

salt water batteries?

[SpiderHead]

Stuff it all.

The volt is only a symptom of a much larger problem. Gm isn't broke because it builds good cars... It is broke because it doesn't.

Let Barney Frank control your finances for a while, and see if he can't do wonders for them like he did for housing in the United States.

Bear in mind now that Barney Frank has led the push for loosening restrictions on financing for housing for 20 years. He got his way.

Now 20 years on, he gets to point fingers at other people effected by his legislation, and say it is their fault that he is such a short sighted prick, and has the nerve to sound self righteous about it.

meh...

lord please deliver us from the latest wave of socialism....

-Ryan

[pope]

Ryan, to say GM doesnt build a good car is right. They build a great car! Their cars are on par with anyone. Buick just overtook Lexus as most reliable. I do think they have too many car divisions. Cadillac is at the top of its game.

I do think that it is a common west coast complaint that was justified a decade or more ago, but is no more true. I think some people find imports as a status symbol and wouldnt switch anyways. I think our purchasing decisions and the economy as a whole has come full circle.

[So Cal Mark]

sorry but I can't agree with you. I see cars built by the Big 3 having loads of problems when Aisan cars are just approaching middle age. I think the only status symbol with an import is the fact that others know you made a smart purchase. I can't begin to tell you how disappointing it is to call a GM or Ford dealer for a part for a 98 model and find the part is no longer available. At 10 yrs old most Big 3 owners are actively considering new cars because their vehicle has so many issues

[htchevyii]

I work at a Toyota, Honda & Mazda dearship and I'm not so sure I agree. I think the Toyota 3vz 3.0 v6 was one of the worst engines ever built. Even the good old 22r&re engines have their share of head gasket and timing chain issues. Tacomas & Tundras go thru steering rack bushings and rear axle seals and bearings at an alarming rate, even in the new 2005+ Tacomas. And Honda can't build a good transmission to save their lives. The CVT and a/t's are dying at a steady rate. They are also having some engine problems with bad castings and cracked blocks. It's good job security for me, since I work in the parts department. I think the biggest difference isn't that the imports don't have problems, but that their makers are more likely to recall or warranty the repair, even if it's out of warranty. Goodwill assistance is decreasing, since they are now feeling the pinch too.
The parts prices are insane, especially forToyota parts. I just sold a 5.7 Tundra engine, it was $21,000!!! A Mazda 3 gas tank is $1600. The imports may be slightly better, but for the difference in purchace & parts prices, I'm not afraid to drive a domestic. My last truck was an '88 Jeep Comanche that I drove for 260,000. Easy to work on and cheap to repair, it lives on under my Dad's care. I now own a 2005 Dodge Ram and it was almost $10,000 less that a comparable Tundra, even with my employee discount. I'm not saying the imports aren't good cars, but they still have problems and I don't think they are as great as people make them out to be. I hope if our American car companies do build better cars that people give them a chance and support our industry. Sorry for the rant

[racydave]

I own a 10 year old Chevy, and its a darn good car...