Oil Pan Banged Up, Rattling

[BartusCompater]

So I gave a curb a good bump with my oil pan today and it's begun to rattle somewhere under there. The rattling seems to follow the speed of the RPMs. I put my hand on the oil pan with the car idling and it feels like it's the oil pan that's rattling. There's always been a huge dent in that thing, though I'm sure I made it worse today. What could be the cause of the rattling, and am I just going to have to replace the oil pan? The car seems to run fine, but the noise scares me so I'm keeping it parked for now.

[Ernie]

Bartus,

Banging the oil pan and then hearing rattling is not good at all. Very prudent to park the car.

I haven't been inside the oil pan on my Spiders yet, but I know from reading forums that banging the pan can be death to the oil pump pickup. Apparently, that's especially the case of the 2000 series. Seems that one is lower to speed bumps, curbs, etc.

From what I read it's possible to pull the pan and access the pump without pulling the engine. It will probably have to be jacked off the motor mounts a bit, but do-able.

I would say, what ever you do, don't take the car out for a buzz until you check the oil pump and pickup.

Ernie

[BartusCompater]

Thanks for the advice Ernie, I wonder if I can pull this off without a mechanic.

[SpiderHead]

Thanks for the advice Ernie, I wonder if I can pull this off without a mechanic.

Sure you can! Just be ready to get dirty, and work slowly. Have fun with it!

Do your homework, stay organized... you will be just fine! Its not a tough job, just a dirty one.

Fiddling with these cars is half the fun of owning one!

-Ryan

to recap:

1) take your time
2) stay organized
3) if frustrated, take a break.. go do something else for a while
4) clean up often
5) have fun!

[lanciahf]

This happened to my spider once. I lent it to a friend who was unaware of Fiats special engineering of placing the oil pump /pan so low to the ground.

Anyway you probably pushed/bind the oil pump shaft into the aux shaft hence the clicking noise. You will need a new oil pump, oil pump & oil pan gasket and should get a new pan. I have heard of others of banging out the old oil pan but I have never done it.
Oh and try to find a new 30 year old OEM oil pump or a good used one, looks like the new ones are crap?

You can do this repair your self. Below are the steps if I miss any others please chime in.

1. jack up car.
2. Place jack under tranny
3. loosen/remove motor mount bolts through crossmember
4. jack up tranny as high as it will go. (First Put a block of wood or a towel behind the cam towers so nothing gets crushed.
(ie: fi hoses)
5. Might have to remove the triangle tranny/flywheel inspection plate.
6. Remove oil pan bolts
7. Pan might drop or be stuck to block due to whatever the PO has done.
8. Pry pan off block.
(Very important - Turn crankshaft via crank shaft pulley (38mm or 1.5 inch socket)
until crank webs are at 90 degrees so pan can wiggle out between engine & crossmember)
9. Hopefully pan slides out without cursing.
10. Remove oil pump, might be in two pieces due to the damage.
11. When replacing the new oil pump turn the crankshaft via the crank pulley as you tighten the oil pump bolts so the oil pump does not bind. Don't forget the gasket!!!

Replace oil pan & new gasket.
Replace Tranny/Flywheel Inspection plate
Lower engine
Tighten Motor mounts
You are done. Should take about two hours..

You might want to do this before you start.
Double check the timing marks on the crank, cam & aux shaft just to make sure the belt did not jump when the oil pan was hit.

The Shop manual has a good section on replacing the pan & pump.

Good Luck,
Ralph

[BartusCompater]

Thanks for the help Ryan and Ralph, I'm feeling quite a bit more confident especially if you think it'll only take a couple of hours. Haha, Fiat's "special engineering" has turn out to be a PITA on multiple occasions now.

My main concern now is finding the new pump/pan/gasket without breaking my bank.

Is there a good alternative to international-auto?

UPDATEE: THe cheapest I've found so far is from Vick Autosports. The pump is $166 and the pan is $152.

[manoa matt]

What year and model is your car? I've got an extra 1800 oil pan, and a few oil pumps from various models, 1800 and 2000
You should open it up and see whats going on first.

[BartusCompater]

It's an 81' 124/2000, I might be able to open it up tomorrow.

[TulsaSpider]

I am pretty skeptical on the 2 hour job part, maybe if you had done if before.... I'd say prepare for at least double that especially since you have to turn the crank and check out specs as stated before, unless he's talking about only the removal part.... then that would be about right. I had to drop mine to check the pickup when I got it, I couldn't get it up far enough to remove it, but far enough to check it. You might also have to disconnect the heater hoses where they enter the cabin.
Also if you don't have a monster 38 MM or 1.5 inch socket you can turn the motor by pushing down on the alternator belt and turning the alternator with a socket /ratchet. That's a little trick I learned on here, I think MBouse gets credit for that! If it's still too hard to turn you can pull the plugs and make sure the car is out of gear, then there's the putting it in 4th and pushing it method.....
Good luck!!

[lanciahf]

Sorry maybe two hours is a bit quick so estimate four hours especially if you are from Oklahoma.. Just kidding

BTW Sears sells 1.5 sockets at a good price.

[racydave]

If I ever need to do mine, Im goin to New Jersey!

[ventura ace]

To add to Ralph's great step-by-step:

1) When sliding the oil pan out, it will get hung up on the oil pump. You'll need to reach inside the pan and remove the 2 oil pump bolts, so the oil pump can drop down into the pan to allow removal. When installing, you'll need to do the opposite.

2) Rotating the oil pump while tightening the bolts is essential, to make sure that it is not binding. You can do this by rotating the engine as Ralph suggested, or merely by turning the auxilliary pulley if the timing belt happens to be off the engine. Doing this step with the timing belt off is really the only way to be able to get a feel for binding -- there is too much drag and compression in the pistons to determine if the oil pump is binding or not.

Alvon

[BartusCompater]

I'm gonna study my shop manual a lot before embarking on this project because I don't know what a lot of the stuff being mentioned is. That being said, I work at a rental yard where I can basically grab anything I need tool-wise (i.e. an engine hoist, a 1.5 socket, etc.) so that, thankfully, will not be a problem. (Is it an engine hoist or a transmission jack that I'll need?)

Also, I'm so grateful for the amount of support that I've gotten on this forum. You guys are all life-savers.

[BartusCompater]

As per Bob's link page I think I've found the parts I need for only a little over $100 rather than the $350+ I thought it would take. I haven't actually confirmed by calling yet, but it looks like I can get the pump from the DiFatta Brothers for around 30-50 (not sure how their catalogue works, there were several listings for "Oil Pump"), and the oil pan from "Fun Imported Auto and Toys" for $80.00. I'll be able to afford to get people Christmas presents!

Also, here's a nice little picture of my poor oil pan:

[So Cal Mark]

those 2L oil pumps are hard to come by, and pretty expensive these days. I'd be surprised if they have the right oil pump for only 30-50 bucks, even if it's used. Your pan doesn't look bent in the area that breaks the pump pickup. Maybe the crankshaft counter weight is hitting the dented area. Did the knocking start as soon as you hit the curb, or did it take awhile before the noise started?