"Starter relays"; more electrical rantings.

Gotta love that wiring . . .
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zachmac
Posts: 1278
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:20 am
Your car is a: 1978 Spider [1979 2 ltr engine]
Location: Aiken, SC

"Starter relays"; more electrical rantings.

Post by zachmac »

As I drink my morning coffee and get ready to go to the garage to continue working on simplifying, modifying and hopefully improving my Spider's electrical system, it occurred to me that we have collectively been using a term loosely here; "starter relay". There are a couple of good posts here about adding a relay to take the current the passes through the ignition switch when starting the car off that switch by adding a relay that the ignition switch simply triggers, a good thing to do, that are posted as "starter relay". That is fine, but I realized no one here has ever added a starter relay to there car as all Spider's came from the factory with one; its called a solenoid. What is being added is a starter solenoid relay; basically a relay to power a relay. You may not think of it in those terms but that is exactly what the solenoid is, a spring loaded open, electromagnetically closed plunger type relay.

To put it in perspective, a typical starter when loaded (cranking the engine) pulls somewhere between 160 to 250 amps. On the other hand the solenoid that is holding the contacts in that circuit closed draws between 10 and 30 amps. That is why the cable from the battery to the starter is such a large cable; it is carrying HUGE current during starting.

That said is it certainly still beneficial to get the 10 - 30 amps of solenoid current off the small ignition switch contacts by adding a conventional Bosch cube relay in that circuit. But is it a starter solenoid relay, not a starter relay.

There I feel better. I've ranted and most all of you are probably saying yeah, so what get a life. :D
Jeff Klein, Aiken, SC
1980 FI Spider, Veridian with Tan (sold about a year ago), in the market for another project
1989 Spider, sold
2008 Mercedes SL65
2008 S600 Mercedes V12
samakijoe
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:56 pm
Your car is a: 1975 Fiat 124
Location: Original Washington (1776) NC

Re: "Starter relays"; more electrical rantings.

Post by samakijoe »

I too have been thinking about doing this upgrade to the starter by adding another wire to the other "30" terminal on the ignition switch. But then I took a look at the site give below.
It shows that a #10 wire is good for up to 35 amps for a wire up to 13ft long. So I'm going to just jumper the two terminals marked 30 at the switch. This will double the contact area in the switch used to control the starter relay. I believe the doubling the area will more then double the current it can carry. Anyone think my thinking is going down the wrong road here? Seems like a much easier way to go.

http://www.offroaders.com/technical/12- ... e-to-amps/
SAMAKIJOE
AKA GRANDPA GRUMPYPANTS
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aj81spider
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Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:04 am
Your car is a: 1974 Fiat 124 Spider
Location: Chelmsford, MA

Re: "Starter relays"; more electrical rantings.

Post by aj81spider »

I think the starter solenoid relay :-) is a better idea than jumpering the contacts or doubling the wires. How much benefit you get from jumpering the contacts depends a lot on how you do it. You have very low resistances (say 1 milliohm per connector for contact resistance and 10 milliohms in a 10 foot 10AWG wire). It doesn't take much resistance in that scenario to shift most of the current one from one contact to the other. A poorly crimped connector with 5 milliohms of resistance might move 80% of the current onto the other contact. Even if you manage to balance the paths perfectly so that the current splits 50-50 you're still moving a lot of current through the ignition switch contacts (and now two of them at once).

It requires a lot less care to use a starter solenoid relay, and doing that minimizes the current through your ignition switch contacts.
A.J.

1974 Fiat 124 Spider
2006 Corvette
1981 Spider 2000 (sold 2013 - never should have sold that car)
zachmac
Posts: 1278
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:20 am
Your car is a: 1978 Spider [1979 2 ltr engine]
Location: Aiken, SC

Re: "Starter relays"; more electrical rantings.

Post by zachmac »

More importantly all those external connections on the ignition switch pass through the same contacts internally so you are doing nothing to prolong the life of you ignition switch by doing what you suggest; the whole point of the relay.
Jeff Klein, Aiken, SC
1980 FI Spider, Veridian with Tan (sold about a year ago), in the market for another project
1989 Spider, sold
2008 Mercedes SL65
2008 S600 Mercedes V12
zonker
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:00 am
Your car is a: 1971 124 Spider 1608cc

Re: "Starter relays"; more electrical rantings.

Post by zonker »

I just recently added a "starter solenoid relay" setup to my '71. I re-purposed a spare oem Sipea radiator fan relay and located it in the spot where the battery charge light relay once was. I also re-used the idle speed step up button and wired it as an under hood remote starter switch.
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