Ignition switch replacement

[piperstan10]

Ignition Key on My 1973 124 spider won't turn. How do I remove without key? Any thoughts?

Thanks

[spider2081]

Have you rocked the steering wheel back and forth (left and right turn) while trying to turn the key?? Is there any chance you have another key to try?? Do you know if you have an original Sipea ignition switch or if it is a Lada replacement?? The Sipea switch often has the name stamped in the shinny cap of the switch. The Lada has the name stamped on the key.

[piperstan10]

I believe this is the original switch, There is no name stamped on the bezel - only roman numerals I II III with a weird V and something else? I did try rocking but will try more aggressively tomorrow. the steering lock is engaged so cannot rock too far.

Thanks - any thoughts will be appreciated - I will probably replace the switch but need to figure out how to remove!

Stan

[DieselSpider]

If the wheel was turned after the car was stopped and bound up against the steering wheel locking pin then the ignition key won't turn until you spin the wheel a bit to relieve the pressure on the ignition switch. Have you checked to see if the steering wheel is locked and putting constant pressure against the ignition switch? So find it helps to jack up the front of the car so that the front wheels are off the ground to relieve the pressure against the ignition switches wheel lock. They can sometimes be quite fussy.

[spider2081]

I think you have a Lada switch in the car. They have the symbols you mention on the shinny face. The original Sipea switch has the name Sipea in the face and an arrow symbol. One would rotate the key to the arrow to remove the ignition switch from the steering column.
The Lada electrical switch part is made of a low melting point material. After a period of time the inner workings of the material melts making them very difficult to turn. What I have done more than once for friends is this. Pull the black boot off the back of the ignition switch. Pull the wires off the switch after making a diagram of where they go. Look into the back of the switch you will see a thin wire ring that is holding the black plastic electrical portion of the switch into the case. With a small screwdriver pop the wire out of the switch. It is acting like a snap ring to hold the switch contact assembly in place. Pull the plastic switch part out of the metal case. You have to get your head up under the dash to do this. With the electrical portion out of the ignition switch there is a good chance the key will turn. You will need another ignition switch. I would recommend you find a good serviceable used Sipea switch to use. Note there is a wiring change required when swapping from a Lada to Sipea or vice versa.

[piperstan10]

If the key still does not turn on the Lada switch after removing the contact assembly, would you drill out the key mechanism?

Does the replacement switch have a new contact assembly?

Would it be quicker just to drill out the old assembly and install the replacement

Thanks

[spider2081]

I'm not sure how good I am at explaining this with out photos. I have never tried to drill out the entire tumbler section of an ignition switch. I have done the following.

To work on the ignition switch it is easier with the steering wheel off.
Pry the shinny cap off t he switch.
Use a small mirror like a dental mirror to look at the side of the switch just above the bar that points toward the steering column.
In most Lada and Fiat ignition switches you will see the end of a small press pin. This pin holds the lock tumbler set into the ignition switch housing.
I use a dremel tool with a small rotary saw tip, maybe 3/8 inch diameter and cut a grove into the housing down toward and into the pin. It takes a few cut to get the width of the pin. cut through the pin if you can. Don't worry about cutting into the switch tumbler.
Then take a straight slot screwdriver and push it into the space between the lock tumbler section and the housing of the switch. Twist the screwdriver and the lock should come out. Cut the "key in switch" wires to completely remove the tumbler section from the car.

Hope this helps.

Yes the replacement switches come complete. I would post int he "parts wanted" section for a good used Sipea switch for replacement.

[baltobernie]

The OE switch looks like this:



A switch with Roman numerals is the Lada version.
This is the pin to drill out for cylinder removal:



Just for giggles, you might try stopping by a full-service locksmith in your Spider, and ask how much they would charge to remove the switch. Ya never know ...

[piperstan10]

I want to thank all for your help. Yesterday, I maneuvered the key and wheels. Then Fished into the keyhole with a fine wired hook probe and found some small pieces of metal fragments (very small almost filings). I used a spray can of sensor cleaner (for auto intake) throttle body. I sprayed into the key slot with a white rag around the area. Then used my compressor nozzle to blow out and got some more filings. after a couple of repeats with cleaner and air - the key finally works ---All is good.

I think I will look for a good quality replacement for a future replacement

Just for clarification, other than the low temp thermoplastics in the LADA, have any performance related issues been noted?

Again - Thanks - The photos by baltobernie and the hints by spider2081 were very helpful and I definitely don't have the OEM lock .

[spider2081]

Thanks for the photos.


Other quality problems are the material the mechanical parts are made from is not as good as the Sipea. I helped a friend last week with a broken key and when I got the tumbler out, the casting the tumbler fits into and rotates, was breaking up as though it had crystallized. This may be what you are experiencing. I would change your switch asap to avoid more problems

[baltobernie]

The photos are from other posts on this forum on the subject.

You can buy Lada and Sipea switches from the vendors popularized on this forum. I'm using the Lada without difficulty, but I have taken a lot of the amperage out of the contacts by using different wiring and relays. If you go with the Lada, I strongly recommend buying it from one of the vendors mentioned above. Unlike Internet trolls, they will provide you with exact wiring instructions for your M/Y Spider.