1980 Fuel issues

[ideashappen]

Hi,
Only my second post here although I have used this forum site for a wealth of information over the past year and a half of owning my awesome car:)

I have been driving my car for around a year and a half. Never have any real issues with it. Always starts first crank.
I went out last weekend on Saturday after having pulled the car out of storage.
After a long winter, put a battery charger on it for 4 hours, came back and after 5 months, car started immediately like I had just parked it the day before. Drove for around an hour and a half then returned home. Not once did I feel hesitation or anything out of the ordinary in it's initial run of the season.
The next morning, went out to start it and it wouldn't start. Started the process of elimination to determine where the issue lies and found it to be a fuel issue. To determine this I just threw gas down the air filter hose and it started right away. It died as soon as the engine used up the gas I added. I just so happened to have a spare pump and filter. I was a little hasty to swap them out (My own fault because I love working on this car) Once swapped I then realized that I was still not getting any fuel to F/I. Checked the relay under my glove compartment and it seems to be working as I hear and feel it click when I turn over the engine. I checked to see if I am getting my 12 v at the pump under the car and it is indeed receiving voltage as I turn over the car. I am at a loss as to how to proceed further with the issue at hand. The symptoms have somewhat changed since I installed the pump and filter in that now the car starts as long as I do not touch the gas pedal. It will run at idle for 2-5 seconds, then die. I can do this many times in a row. I was thinking possibly something to do with the pressure valve or the like.
Any insight would be awesome as I can't just go to my car parts store here in Quebec Canada to just buy parts for swap out tests.
Thanks in advance,
ideashappen

[RRoller123]

Had this same thing happen. Running for a couple of seconds and dying usually implies that it is running only on the CSI. Check the two ground connections on the intake plenum and make sure they are properly secured and making electrical contact. Hopefully it is something this easy to resolve.

[wizard124]

Swap out or test the double relay. One relay is for the fuel pump circuit; the other is for the injectors.

[ideashappen]

Had this same thing happen. Running for a couple of seconds and dying usually implies that it is running only on the CSI. Check the two ground connections on the intake plenum and make sure they are properly secured and making electrical contact. Hopefully it is something this easy to resolve.

Thanks for your response......
Would you be able to steer me in the general direction on the plenum of where these 2 ground blocks may be. Knowing the fragility of the wires and grounds on these cars I don't want to start futzing around with just any wire.
Could you please elaborate on CSI. Besides of course the long running TV shows

[ideashappen]

Swap out or test the double relay. One relay is for the fuel pump circuit; the other is for the injectors.

Thank you also for your response.....
While I understand that I may be forced to swap out the relay I was trying to avoid it for as long as I can. The theory is if I can eliminate all that is right by suggestions such as RRoller123's, I should be left with what is wrong. That particular relay I can't just buy easily in Canada (unless I am mistaken) By easily I mean be able to drive within a 60 mile radius and buy it. Shipping from the states would be expensive and long considering the state of our exchange rate at present time. Also my understanding is that this particular relay isn't cheap. Now if someone could tell me how the dual relay is supposed to react during it's stages I could in fact test it, no?

[RRoller123]

The one I am holding goes under the bolt head just in front of it, and you can see the second one to the right at the corner of the plenum. These grounds are necessary for the injectors to fire. It is easy to forget to reinstall them when the plenum top is off, especially if you tuck them out of the way, as I did. I haven't traced them back to where they go, but that end obviously needs to be properly attached as well to its particular point of termination. A wiring diagram will show you that. Good luck, hope yours is an easy fix!

Pete

[ideashappen]

The one I am holding goes under the bolt head just in front of it, and you can see the second one to the right at the corner of the plenum. These grounds are necessary for the injectors to fire. It is easy to forget to reinstall them when the plenum top is off, especially if you tuck them out of the way, as I did. I haven't traced them back to where they go, but that end obviously needs to be properly attached as well to its particular point of termination. A wiring diagram will show you that. Good luck, hope yours is an easy fix!

Pete

Awesome pic.... that helps tremendously to find what you had previously posted. It i the first thing I will check this morning when I get back.
Luckily it is still hoovering around 0 degrees out so I won't be driving anytime soon even if I wanted to.

I'd still love to get an explanation on how to test the dual relay before swapping it out,any takers?

[narfire]

I had a no-run issue recently when first getting the car on the road for the year.
I had spark.
To check the fuel delivery I backed off the fuel hose to the cold start injector. Took the air filter off. turned the key so all the lights on the dash light up. Poked the afm flap and looked to see if fuel was coming out the hose. Nope. No fuel being pumped. Did the same with the key and left the flap open and crawled down to check if the pump was working.....nope. Fiddled with the leads to the pump and off it went.....Loose leads to the pump was the issue in my car....Gotta love the simple fixes.
(Had a rag around the csi hose as the fuel comes out at quite a clip.
Check the temp sensor connection on the coolant "T" as well,
Looks like you might have a few days to sort out as another cold front is heading your way....
Chris

[klweimer]

The absolute best way to troubleshoot the FI system is with the factory manual.

It will take you through all the steps required to troubleshoot the double relay, and everything else.
Kirk

[ideashappen]

The absolute best way to troubleshoot the FI system is with the factory manual.

It will take you through all the steps required to troubleshoot the double relay, and everything else.
Kirk

Thanks for the...... insight? lol
All it would take is a magic wand too, right? But I don't have the manual or the magic wand. Is there somewhere I can get a digitized version of that manual. I am of the belief that the forum site as this was to help lean on each others knowledge and physical experience to recognize symptoms and be able to feed off each other. If we were all to just simply say ' go read the manual' we would be negating the whole reasoning for for discussion forums, no? suggesting the manual is one thing.... thanks, already thought of it. Telling me where you got yours maybe far more valuable information.

[ideashappen]

Update to my 'situation'
I removed the fuel line that is closest to the firewall on the f/i rail. When I turn over the engine it is pumping fuel, no doubt.
Removed the fuel line that feeds the fuel pressure regulator (I assume) and blew in it as I ,again, assume it is the return to the gas tank. It blows freely with no apparent obstruction.
Still the symptom is the same. Car starts first turn of crank, idles perfectly for 2-5 seconds then dies. If I push on the gas it dies. If I let it idle it dies. It will, though, fire up immediately for the aforementioned 2-5 seconds then subsequently die. I could do that all day.
Any further ideas?

[klweimer]

ideashappen,
Sorry if the earlier post wasn't helpful. Never sure what level people are at. PM me your email and I'll send the electronic version to you.
Kirk

[ideashappen]

ideashappen,
Sorry if the earlier post wasn't helpful. Never sure what level people are at. PM me your email and I'll send the electronic version to you.
Kirk

See .... now we are cooking with ... uh hum... gas
That is a very kind offer and it is more than sincerely appreciated.
PM on the way

[ideashappen]

To respond back to rroller123's posts for the grounds, I checked the continuity between existing grounds you showed in your pics and random grounding points on the body. I have continuity so I can rule out that as an issue I guess. Not to mention that I am getting fuel at least to the f/i rail.

[ideashappen]

I had a no-run issue recently when first getting the car on the road for the year.
I had spark.
To check the fuel delivery I backed off the fuel hose to the cold start injector. Took the air filter off. turned the key so all the lights on the dash light up. Poked the afm flap and looked to see if fuel was coming out the hose. Nope. No fuel being pumped. Did the same with the key and left the flap open and crawled down to check if the pump was working.....nope. Fiddled with the leads to the pump and off it went.....Loose leads to the pump was the issue in my car....Gotta love the simple fixes.
(Had a rag around the csi hose as the fuel comes out at quite a clip.
Check the temp sensor connection on the coolant "T" as well,
Looks like you might have a few days to sort out as another cold front is heading your way....
Chris

Thanks for the post Chris......
In my steps I found that my pump is in fact pumping to ,at the very least , the f/i rail. So it would seem my problem is different than yours. Too bad for me , lol.
I have to say compared to last year this year sucks ass for temperature. I was driving my car last year as of 4th of April and had nothing but warmth and sunshine..... sometimes this year I have to make sure of my longitude and latitude to make sure I am in the same place as last year