A surefire, fool proof, can't fail coolant fill technique

[ventura ace]

No, it won't hurt to run the engine for 3 or 4 seconds sans oil pump -- that's exactly what happens every time you change the oil filter. It takes a few seconds for the oil pressure to come back up when you first start the engine, because it has to fill up the oil filter before the oil flows elsewhere. Of course, you can reduce the time to maybe 1 or 2 seconds if you fill up the new filter with oil before restarting the engine, but how many people take that extra step? I do, when I remember, but about 1/2 the time I forget. Another thought: you can add a pint or quart of STP to your oil before doing this test, for making your oil cling to the surfaces, and not draining back to the pan so quickly.

1) Run the engine like normal (oil pump connected) for a minute or so first, to get fresh lube throughout all the load bearing areas.
2) Disconnect the oil pump (remove helical gear). Start car to listen for noise. Don't run the car for any longer than 4 seconds without the oil pump. It could probably run for a lot longer without damage, but I wouldn't risk it. You'll either hear the noise right away or you won't, and then you are done. If you hear a lot of clanking and whining, Mark will build you a new short block!!
3) Reinstall the helical gear exactly as it was installed before removal.

This is a heck of a lot easier than removing the oil pump (major effort) and putting another one in, only to find out that the noise was something else after all.

Alvon

[So Cal Mark]

IMHO, it's not advice I would give or follow. But, it's your car/engine and if you want to run it with the oil pump disabled, go for it. Please record the episode on your camcorder with sound enabled so we can all experience the event/results

[mdrburchette]

You could change the oil to synthetic to do this little test. Ron uses synthetic in his race engines and during a race at Charlotte, he lost all his oil due to a faulty line and had to run the engine for a full lap without oil. There was no damage to the engine. Heck, I'm sure your engine would be okay for 4 seconds, but if not, I've got a nice little 1608 with a carb you could stick in there.

[rlux4]

You can't pull that one on me Denise. I know they didn't have internal combustion engines in 1608!
Ron

[mdrburchette]

Geez Ron. I swear, there's just no hope for you.

[racydave]

But Ron, HOW do you know this?

[mdrburchette]

He was there.

[rlux4]

Oh boy, that's one I should have seen coming.
I almost cracked a rib when I started to laugh at Dave's comment, and then I saw Denise's.
Almost did me in.
Ron

[racydave]

Any more nostalgia? I was there when they invented the wheel. Just a few years later... Denise was the test driver

[rlux4]

Well, you're both still kids. Denise is about the same age as my wife, and when I was a senior in high school, she was in kindergarten. We weren't dating then of course.
Ron

[pope]

Thats funny Ron, cause my future wife is in high school right now, I just havent picked her out yet!

[rlux4]

I love this forum!
Ahem, back to the point at hand.
It was brought to my attention on Mira that a George Dunham, back in 1985 on the IAP site added this hand drawing to the standard instructions for filling the cooling system (near the bottom of the page.)
I thought I was passing along an original solution, turns out somebody else been there, done that!
http://www.international-auto.com/fiat- ... in-cam.cfm
Ron

[Tappy]

i've got the same hole

aint fool proof , i still manage to get air in the system

this can only mean i'm not a fool

[danaspider]

Maybe I missed it in the discussion, but could the noise (you say only lasts for a minute or so) be from the alternator under full load? You will hear a sound at startup where the alternator is pulling full load to get the batter charged back up from the start up. This normally goes away in a minute or so. Although this might be considered a higher freq noise, but then old ears do not hear the same freq's as young ones. Although mine are not as old as 1608.

Yeah video the no oil pressure startup!!!!!! Always hear that running for a few miles doesn't cause damage....... Yeah right.

[rlux4]

Thanks Danaspider, but no it's not that. I did take of the belt for the alt. and water pump and the sound was still there. At this point I'm leaning towards the oil pump or gears for it. Ventura Ace has a suggestion that may solve the dilema. At this point though, it's not a problem, other than having to answer when I get asked at start up: "What's that noise?"
Ron