sh*t happens + new pictures

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Tappy
Posts: 721
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:22 pm
Your car is a: 124 spider 2000 1979
Location: Belgium ; Centre Of Europe

sh*t happens + new pictures

Post by Tappy »

To give yoiu guys an inpression of my mechanical skills :

things that already went wrong , dont get me wrong ,I like my spider very much , i spend all my free time searching stuff on the internet and i really want to learn , now i'm following evening school to learn a bit how a car works.

Last summer on a beautifull evening i went out to my best friends fathers café and i very much like riding the spider in the evening with an open top , especially when my bedroom is about 32°c

So we went there , had some drinks and on the way back i decided to make a sanatary stop on the side of the road . (maybe i should tell you first that the exhoust line on the car was from a 2000 model however someone swapped the motor into a 1600 model , so the whole exhoust line was to low on the car) So we stopped on the side on the road , what i didn't see @ that time was that there was an enourmus gap right there where i stopped , BANG ! the exhoust line hit the streeet and the manifold couln't take the hit and broke ...Disaster not only waking up the whole neightbourhoud , i dint realise what was happend . So i opend up the hood , but becouse it was dark outside i could't see what was happend ... np i 'm a smoker so i took my fire out of my pocket and illuminated the motor , not just a bit !! It set itself on fire becouse of a bad oilcap the whole cylinder was soaked in oil , you can imagine what happend , i lit on the engine , in no time flames where bursting out of my engine compartment . What a nightmare , no Fire extinguisher :( My Friend already starting to run towards some spectators who i woke up whith the blastering sound of the broke of manifold , asking for a bucket of water. Anyone tried to extinguis burning oil with water ?
Lucky for me i remebered a spectacular show of the firedepartment tryng to extinguis a frying pan , my luck i would be the pretty face i am now telling you this if i dind remebered ! Becouse whe where picknicking the other day i still had a blanked in the trunk , whe made that one wet and put that on the fire. After all i didn't have that much damage things could been a lot worse ...

After this fire i needed a new manifold so i went on searching and then was the first time i checked the motornumber and realised it was a 1600 instead of the 1995 that the papers stated ....

a few months later i thought it was time to clean out my engine bay , clean op the motor , maybe do some poliching here and there (like the shiny motors you see on pictures from die hard members) Not knowing anything about motors i tought this was something i could do with no hassle. If i wasnt been that thorrow tho... in my drift i bolted off the cams and took them in for a pollishing job . I dind't know that the timing belt had to be exact , i thought if you put it back on like you got it off it would be fine. So i did. I wanted to start the 124 and all she did was klik, KRAK . and nothing further .... Yay a hard lesson was learned , the timing belt has to be EXACKTLY lockaded all valves broke off , cylinderhead sevarly damaged (probably from keep trying and wondering why it dint start)

As i knew from the last time it wasn't a 2l but a 1600 so the time was right to get a whole new motor this time a 2000l Problem was i dint know anything about motors (as you should know by reading this far) and if i would buy a second hand motor i could easely be a golf motor as far as i knew. So looked for someone who had a motor and would do the swith also so i would see it work before pickup . Took me 3 months to find that someone but he was 200 Km away from my home so needed a towcompagny , my other car is a citroën c3 pluriel , you cant even tow a bike with that (but my girfriend wanted that one or i had to sell he spider to get something bigger ) Ok this guy worked on his spare time on my spider he did replace the motor , installed twin webers on it , replaced the radiator (it would not have leaked harder than it dit if you had mounted it upside down with no cap) replaced the waterpump , oilpump made a linkage for the twin webers replaced the stearing cullom (it was stuck not a bit of oil left in it , the guy amost crached severely becouse it blocked ) and he kept his word and dindn't ask anything more for all these improvements he made (about 1000€ for the motor, twin webers , new radiator and all the other pieces) After al i was happy becouse i didnt loose my spider and after not driven it for 5 months i really was hoping to get it ready for this summer

What i dint know and what he failed to mension is that the motor he replaced still had the original timing belt (probably for the last 15 years) So a few weeks back on the first sunny day we had i decided to take the spider for a spin I drove like 10 km and stopped for a quick snack. When i got back in and ready to leave i turned the egnition key and all she did was klik , KRAK.OMG the timing belt was broken , so i had let her fix again .... same result all valves where broken off again . Luckely this time i learned to know someone who does nothing than prepairing oldtimers for racing , this guy is now my mechanic he fixed her , again , for 600€ ....@ this point i realised i had to go and take lessons , in the end i would be a lot cheaper

Now i'm only allowed to do some things besides the motor (from my girfriend , and i really dont want to tell her once again the motor has been f*cked up again)

So there is where i am today , trying to clean up the wiring , hopefully i dont do anything wrong again

to be (dis)continued....
Last edited by Tappy on Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gunsmith

Re: sh*t happens

Post by Gunsmith »

Well Tappy it seams as though we have very similar luck when it comes to autos. I hope mine is changing for the better. At least you can say you're not a quiter!! :x I am glad to see you are as determined to get things fixed as I am. Good money thrown after bad on a Spider is still cheaper and more rewarding than drugs and beer. It is also way cheaper than owning any boat made for saltwater! :cry: You won't know what to do with yourself once you get it fixed. What will you do with all that spare time and money?
mdrburchette
Posts: 5754
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:49 am
Your car is a: 1972 Fiat 124 Sport
Location: Winston-Salem, NC

Re: sh*t happens

Post by mdrburchette »

What a story! I think we've all been frustrated a few times with our little old cars and I congratulate you for trying to learn more about yours and keeping with it after what you've been through. Few things are more satisfying than being able to find a problem and repair it. With all the Fiats I have, I should be an exremely satisfied person!
1972 124 Spider (Don)
1971 124 Spider (Juan)
1986 Bertone X19 (Blue)
1978 124 Spider Lemons racer
1974 X19 SCCA racer (Paul)
2012 500 Prima Edizione #19 (Mini Rossa)
Ever changing count of parts cars....It's a disease!
User avatar
Tappy
Posts: 721
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:22 pm
Your car is a: 124 spider 2000 1979
Location: Belgium ; Centre Of Europe

Re: sh*t happens

Post by Tappy »

Gunsmith wrote:... What will you do with all that spare time and money?
if theres any left my girlfriend is wanting a citroën DS or an alfa spider ...i keep telling her they still be oldtimers in 20 years :)
mdrburchette wrote:.... Few things are more satisfying than being able to find a problem and repair it. With all the Fiats I have, I should be an exremely satisfied person!
Like driving next to a "thickneck" merc , and see all the heads looking @ your spider :D
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rlux4
Patron 2022
Patron 2022
Posts: 4211
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:32 pm
Your car is a: 1982 2000 Spider
Location: Granite Falls, Wa

Re: sh*t happens

Post by rlux4 »

Tappy, I don't know what you do for a living, but I think you ought to cosider being a sitcom writer. We hate to laugh at other's misfortunes, but I couldn't help it!
Hang in there buddy.
BTW, I thought the 1995 engine wasn't supposed to break valves if the timing belt is off? Is your head from an earlier engine?
Ron
Ron Luxmore
rlux2n2@gmail.com
'82 2000 Spider: after 26 years between Spiders.
Leesfer

Re: sh*t happens

Post by Leesfer »

Is it a 1608? I'd love to have one, Ill trade you
So Cal Mark

Re: sh*t happens

Post by So Cal Mark »

the 2l will freewheel if the belt breaks as far as the valves go, the aux shaft can contact the crankshaft/rod. But if the belt is on wrong, the valves can hit each other. It's a little different situation since a broken belt will result in the cams not turning and an incorrectly installed belt will turn the cams out of time
User avatar
Tappy
Posts: 721
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:22 pm
Your car is a: 124 spider 2000 1979
Location: Belgium ; Centre Of Europe

Re: sh*t happens

Post by Tappy »

rlux4 wrote:...
BTW, I thought the 1995 engine wasn't supposed to break valves if the timing belt is off? Is your head from an earlier engine?
Ron
I think there a 1800 head on , thats what they told me , how can i see wich head is on ?
Leesfer wrote:Is it a 1608? I'd love to have one, Ill trade you
the 1600 was completely broken, i left it with the guy who put in the 2l
So Cal Mark wrote:the 2l will freewheel if the belt breaks as far as the valves go, the aux shaft can contact the crankshaft/rod. But if the belt is on wrong, the valves can hit each other. It's a little different situation since a broken belt will result in the cams not turning and an incorrectly installed belt will turn the cams out of time


The belt was broken but not completely off , i think it was moved I was also told that the head was a 1800 head , for better copression ? how can i check wich head i have ?
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User avatar
Tappy
Posts: 721
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:22 pm
Your car is a: 124 spider 2000 1979
Location: Belgium ; Centre Of Europe

Re: sh*t happens

Post by Tappy »

what happend before :
Tappy wrote:To give yoiu guys an inpression of my mechanical skills :

things that already went wrong , dont get me wrong ,I like my spider very much , i spend all my free time searching stuff on the internet and i really want to learn , now i'm following evening school to learn a bit how a car works.

Last summer on a beautifull evening i went out to my best friends fathers café and i very much like riding the spider in the evening with an open top , especially when my bedroom is about 32°c

So we went there , had some drinks and on the way back i decided to make a sanatary stop on the side of the road . (maybe i should tell you first that the exhoust line on the car was from a 2000 model however someone swapped the motor into a 1600 model , so the whole exhoust line was to low on the car) So we stopped on the side on the road , what i didn't see @ that time was that there was an enourmus gap right there where i stopped , BANG ! the exhoust line hit the streeet and the manifold couln't take the hit and broke ...Disaster not only waking up the whole neightbourhoud , i dint realise what was happend . So i opend up the hood , but becouse it was dark outside i could't see what was happend ... np i 'm a smoker so i took my fire out of my pocket and illuminated the motor , not just a bit !! It set itself on fire becouse of a bad oilcap the whole cylinder was soaked in oil , you can imagine what happend , i lit on the engine , in no time flames where bursting out of my engine compartment . What a nightmare , no Fire extinguisher My Friend already starting to run towards some spectators who i woke up whith the blastering sound of the broke of manifold , asking for a bucket of water. Anyone tried to extinguis burning oil with water ?
Lucky for me i remebered a spectacular show of the firedepartment tryng to extinguis a frying pan , my luck i would be the pretty face i am now telling you this if i dind remebered ! Becouse whe where picknicking the other day i still had a blanked in the trunk , whe made that one wet and put that on the fire. After all i didn't have that much damage things could been a lot worse ...

After this fire i needed a new manifold so i went on searching and then was the first time i checked the motornumber and realised it was a 1600 instead of the 1995 that the papers stated ....

a few months later i thought it was time to clean out my engine bay , clean op the motor , maybe do some poliching here and there (like the shiny motors you see on pictures from die hard members) Not knowing anything about motors i tought this was something i could do with no hassle. If i wasnt been that thorrow tho... in my drift i bolted off the cams and took them in for a pollishing job . I dind't know that the timing belt had to be exact , i thought if you put it back on like you got it off it would be fine. So i did. I wanted to start the 124 and all she did was klik, KRAK . and nothing further .... Yay a hard lesson was learned , the timing belt has to be EXACKTLY lockaded all valves broke off , cylinderhead sevarly damaged (probably from keep trying and wondering why it dint start)

As i knew from the last time it wasn't a 2l but a 1600 so the time was right to get a whole new motor this time a 2000l Problem was i dint know anything about motors (as you should know by reading this far) and if i would buy a second hand motor i could easely be a golf motor as far as i knew. So looked for someone who had a motor and would do the swith also so i would see it work before pickup . Took me 3 months to find that someone but he was 200 Km away from my home so needed a towcompagny , my other car is a citroën c3 pluriel , you cant even tow a bike with that (but my girfriend wanted that one or i had to sell he spider to get something bigger ) Ok this guy worked on his spare time on my spider he did replace the motor , installed twin webers on it , replaced the radiator (it would not have leaked harder than it dit if you had mounted it upside down with no cap) replaced the waterpump , oilpump made a linkage for the twin webers replaced the stearing cullom (it was stuck not a bit of oil left in it , the guy amost crached severely becouse it blocked ) and he kept his word and dindn't ask anything more for all these improvements he made (about 1000€ for the motor, twin webers , new radiator and all the other pieces) After al i was happy becouse i didnt loose my spider and after not driven it for 5 months i really was hoping to get it ready for this summer

What i dint know and what he failed to mension is that the motor he replaced still had the original timing belt (probably for the last 15 years) So a few weeks back on the first sunny day we had i decided to take the spider for a spin I drove like 10 km and stopped for a quick snack. When i got back in and ready to leave i turned the egnition key and all she did was klik , KRAK.OMG the timing belt was broken , so i had let her fix again .... same result all valves where broken off again . Luckely this time i learned to know someone who does nothing than prepairing oldtimers for racing , this guy is now my mechanic he fixed her , again , for 600€ ....@ this point i realised i had to go and take lessons , in the end i would be a lot cheaper

Now i'm only allowed to do some things besides the motor (from my girfriend , and i really dont want to tell her once again the motor has been f*cked up again)

So there is where i am today , trying to clean up the wiring , hopefully i dont do anything wrong again

to be (dis)continued....

The wiring gave me headache thanks to brad artigues shemes i survived , however not without some trouble , most of the wiring went well , ive pulled out strings from 1m that where composes out of 5 pieces , and as many possebilletys to connect them toghereter

I did make a mistake do in the interiour somehow a chime went of when i used the sigarette lighter and forgot to get a bypas for the radio those minor things were solved quickly , more of a tackle waere the fog lights , making my first relay switched cicuit took me 3 fuses however that works(almost*) well now


The only thing a took a picture of was the coil , not realising that the coil looks exactly the same upside down , not that that would be that great problem if it wasn't powered by two 12v+ wires (still dont know why , according to the sheme one of them if for the power antenna ...) so if you connect the - and the + on the same terminal you result in a smoking coil and smoking distributor :( , coil almost melted trough , contactpoints melted

replaced the coil with another model , no spark , what could that be , tried numerous thins with a testing lamp , a spooked testing lamp it dit illuminate just holding it and connecting it to the + and - of the battery , however laying it down gave a bad contact , took me hours to find that out , couldnt determine if the primary or the secondary circuit was broken
after i fixed the testing lamp , run some more tests , a faulty high currentwire was making poor contact (in fact no contact at all ) Also replaced the contactpoints and condensor. set the correct dwell and advanced timing @ shool
waaw she worked again , my first breakdown that fixed myself :D Very proud i've found and fixed it (over 4 days , but hey still did it myself) promissed myself a tour.

Before even getting porperly out the garage fuel was pooring out like it costs nothing , the PO didnt connect the fuell overflow hose , while i've cleaning up the engine bay i syupposed the loose hose was from a precvious installed water choke kind of thing so i removed the hose , becouse my tiny garage has a drive up floor (how do explain this for godsake ? , it used to be a stable in 1930 converted to a garage later ..... )but anyhow driving it out of there costed me a few liters of fuell


After refuelling i started the lang anticipated tour , so i did only afer 20 km she stopped again

Opening the hood , i smelled fuell , and i saw it leak away , again , aldo i did replaced the overflow hose correctly with a new one , this time the incomming hose was "corroded", when i touched it it simply fell apart ... I went home on foot that time( feaking 20 km :() becouse everyone near bye was working sleaping or just not picking up the phone , already knowing i had a panne again :) Getting back on my bike with a new hose , ready to replace the broken one. After replacing it still dint start :twisted: (aldo now it is starting better , becouse the fuell pump isn't sucking air most of the time , solved that problem trough replacing the hose, now realising that was probably the couse of the bad starting issue i had before)

Not being the fuell problem anymore i suspected the ignition system again , and yeah , the contactpoints werent closing anymore and the distributor was getting hot ... why do breakdowns always have more things going wrong @ the same time ? the distributor getting hot was the new condensor that wasn't grounding proper (sanding the condensor and bracket solved that) , and the replacement coil wasn't good either :evil: , cousing the new contactpoints to melt (@least the plastic thing that makes it go open and closed)

During that trip i've notished that the radiator wasnt coming on like it should , i flushed the system wile rewiring , took the oppertunety to get the 1/5 kg rust out of the system , fixed the heater and put it all back togheter , however not without some problems (ofcourse , she is really testing me ... or maybe she is just learning me what all can go wrong ?)

At first i had some air in the system , followd bye a broken themoswitch , bad closing radiator cap (touched the clam for the overflow botle hose , kept it slichtly open) ; on top of that a badly connected temp sensor in the motorhead 'so the meter , did work, didn't work, overworked ) after all that was all fixed i took her for a spin , about 20 km from home , @ the washstation , one of the radiatorhoses exploded

when we speak this errors are fixed also

After getting my new carpet , and some sores on my hand cutting it in the right form , and glue al over my arms (man it hurts to peel of the hairs from your arm !) i finally finished her today

ofcourse a testdrive was in order , everything went well , so well i treated myself with a drink on the terras , when i got back the new fog lights drained the battery :cry:

having cables to jump the battery i called out to my girlfriend to come and get me , ofcourse like always i runned out of luck , one of the clams was broken off ,luckely a passing bus driver had some havy duty cables to help us

She's save in the garage again , but i've notished one of the bulps of the fog lights is broken already (i bet one of the guys that produced them , did touch the bulp with his bear hands leaving some grease on the bup cousing it to fail )

getting some new lamps tomorrow , and planning in a fotoshoot , as it is getting 27°c , keep your fingers crossed ....

to be (dis)continioud ....
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rlux4
Patron 2022
Patron 2022
Posts: 4211
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:32 pm
Your car is a: 1982 2000 Spider
Location: Granite Falls, Wa

Re: sh*t happens

Post by rlux4 »

Whew! What next, huh Tappy? Hey, at least you'll be very familiar with what can go wrong.
Also, your girlfriend can be sure you're not running around on her, you're too busy working on your car.
Ron
Ron Luxmore
rlux2n2@gmail.com
'82 2000 Spider: after 26 years between Spiders.
Spiddy

Re: sh*t happens

Post by Spiddy »

OH BOY TAPPY, YOU'VE JUST GOT TO WRITE A BOOK :!: :lol:
User avatar
launieg
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:17 pm
Your car is a: 1981 spider 2000
Location: Duncan, BC, Canada

Re: sh*t happens

Post by launieg »

I have to applaud your perseverance! I can't imagine not pushing the car down some ravine, if faced with all of that in such short time! :wink: You deserve an award!
Launie
'81 Spider Rolling Restoration
User avatar
Tappy
Posts: 721
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:22 pm
Your car is a: 124 spider 2000 1979
Location: Belgium ; Centre Of Europe

Re: sh*t happens

Post by Tappy »

OMG got her out for some pics today , wich i'll post later *

when almost back home after a +-80km drive , the last part was highway , there i've fully tested the postential , or at least up to 170Km/h (@5500 rpm) +- 105m/h

not bad , almost home 3 streets to go , no more ignition and a hell of a lot smoke from under the hood
my hart stoot still , i really tought se was about to explode or burn down :shock:

pushed her on to a nearby parking lot , theres oil leaking from the distributor!!! didn't open it yet as the engine was to hot and that oil could give me nasty burns

so i walked home, again ! *the camera is still in the trunk so i need to get that to post the pics later

My guess is that i blew the gasket that holds back the oil from the cams , i'll find out in an hour or so when everything cooled down a bit

5 days before mariage , this is unbelievable .....

a question here , need a quick answer asap pls : if i clean out distributor later , can i start and drive it home with the broken gasket ? its about 1.5 km (1 mile) or will that even couse more trouble ? Problem is she 's standing near a interstate , and not being able to loch the doors i hate that she should spend the night there , probably getting the gasket can take up to 3 days :(

Also, your girlfriend can be sure you're not running around on her, you're too busy working on your car.
Ron
Srr you got it wrong there , when i'm not driving the car i'm driving her .... lately the car dind't drive alot so.... :lol:
Last edited by Tappy on Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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User avatar
launieg
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:17 pm
Your car is a: 1981 spider 2000
Location: Duncan, BC, Canada

Re: sh*t happens

Post by launieg »

Ouch, those letters really poked my eyes! Actually, it feels kinda good 8)

First of all, I know far less than most of the forum members, but I'll offer you my rather limited opinion, so maybe you can get the car moved quickly.

I would guess it is probably safe to drive the car home, if it starts up easily. Just make sure you did not lose too much oil. So, CHECK (ouch) your oil level! But I would also make sure that the oil really is coming from the distributor and only the distributor. Also, make sure it is not coming up the shaft of the distributor into the distributor. But that would probably have stopped your car, so I'm guessing it is coming from around the distributor (like mine does).

In summary, if it is just leaking around the distributor and running down onto the exhaust manifold (where it is burning and smoking), then you should be okay to drive it home. Again, check your oil level - several times on the way home, if it is a long drive.

I hope one of you "oldtimers" on the forum can confirm or correct my advice. So Tappy, until you hear from someone else on the forum who can advice you, take my ideas with a "grain of salt" as we say here.
Launie
'81 Spider Rolling Restoration
User avatar
Tappy
Posts: 721
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:22 pm
Your car is a: 124 spider 2000 1979
Location: Belgium ; Centre Of Europe

Re: sh*t happens

Post by Tappy »

launieg wrote: Also, make sure it is not coming up the shaft of the distributor into the distributor. But that would probably have stopped your car.

i'm afraid that is just what happend , as i saw no oil anywhere else , just some drips from underneath the ditributor cap that i didnt open yet It did stop my car ... and if i'm getting it right it wont be starting again later if its really comming trough the shaft into the distributor

Isnt that where the gasket fails ? will my distributor be salvagebale ?

found this in the meanwile
http://www.international-auto.com/video ... July07.flv
Last edited by Tappy on Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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