Timing Belt Help. All set for now. Thanks!

[ylbill]

I picked up my car last year and have probably put a couple thousand miles on it since purchasing the car. I have no idea the condition of the timing belt and after reading some of the possible results from a broken belt, I think I'd like to get it changed. I'm not a mechanic and have little engine repair experience, so I called a mechanic in the area who works on Fiats and Alfa's. The price was pretty high, so I was wondering if there was anyone in the Southeastern MA area that has had experience with this that could give me some guidance with this? Thanks

[divace73]

what is a pretty high price? $200-$400 or closer to $1000.00

It is fairly easy to do it yourself, if you are that way inclined. Or maybe some members from here will do it for a lot less??

What ever the cost of the mechanic, it is usually cheaper than a broken belt....usually....

[ylbill]

what is a pretty high price? $200-$400 or closer to $1000.00

It is fairly easy to do it yourself, if you are that way inclined. Or maybe some members from here will do it for a lot less??

What ever the cost of the mechanic, it is usually cheaper than a broken belt....usually....

well, he was going to replace the belt, water pump, seals etc. and quoted me roughly $750. I wouldn't mind tackling the job with some help, especially on getting things lined up correctly.

[divace73]

get yourself a list of part that will need changing and pricing from the well know fiat vendors and then it will give you an idea on what the labour cost is. I'll start it off, others chime in
Get yourself a decent 124 workshop manual and tools
Timing Belt
tensionor bearing
if you do the seals you need to remove your cam wheels, aux and crank pulley (is a decent size job getting them back on and torqued correctly)
Water pump (this is always a if it ain't broken don't fix it, but it usually breaks down 6months after you did your belt. It's not really a big job anyway and can be done later on)
I can't think of anything else at present...

[ylbill]

get yourself a list of part that will need changing and pricing from the well know fiat vendors and then it will give you an idea on what the labour cost is. I'll start it off, others chime in
Get yourself a decent 124 workshop manual and tools
Timing Belt
tensionor bearing
if you do the seals you need to remove your cam wheels, aux and crank pulley (is a decent size job getting them back on and torqued correctly)
Water pump (this is always a if it ain't broken don't fix it, but it usually breaks down 6months after you did your belt. It's not really a big job anyway and can be done later on)
I can't think of anything else at present...

Thanks for the push Dave. Its probably not that bad of a job, but I'm still a little intimidated by it. If I do decide to attempt it, should I just plan on doing the belt, because you mentioned doing the seals is a fairly good size job. As far as parts cost, I think all the parts are fairly inexpensive? So I think most of the job cost is labor, that's why I put this post up. If I can do it or get some help doing it, I think I could save quite a bit of labor cost.

[dantye]

You might want to check in to the Dayco kits that extend the warranty on their timing belts. ((My guess is that it requires "professional" installation.) I think they include water pump, tensioner, pulleys, etc. Learned about it when I bought a spare belt at Advance Auto Parts. Here is their info:
http://www.daycoproducts.com/daycoweb.n ... m!OpenForm

[JConnerly]

I just changed mine for the first time since buying my 81. It took me about 16 hrs of labor but I was in no hurry and took my time, cleaning and painting parts as I went. Parts cost me just over 100$ from Autoricmbi and included the water pump, tensioner bearing, belt, crank seal and aux shaft seal. I also needed to buy a 11/2 in socket, 3/4 drive, a 3/4 drive breaker bar and chain wrench to remove the crank nut. I made my gaskets for the two seal housings but should have bought these when I bought the other parts. It was worth the time and effort in money saved but also in the satisfaction of a successful repair. If you have a good manual it's a step by step process. Take pictures as you go to help you with reassembly, the pulleys cac be installed backwards. Fear not! It just takes patience and attention to details.

[bradartigue]

and quoted me roughly $750. I wouldn't mind tackling the job with some help, especially on getting things lined up correctly.

He's charging about 6 hours of labor. Maybe 5 if he is using better-than-normal parts (pirelli belt, etc.) This is gravy work for mechanics because its so easy. If you've timing belts before on these cars you've got maybe 2.5 hours of work you can charge 6.5 for. Which is why owning an old car requires to be either (a) wealthy or (b) able to do these things. Give yourself a day since you haven't done this before and a garage so you can leave it disassembled while asking questions of other folks, and you'll get it done.

If you can remove spark plugs and push a car a few feet you can line up a twin cam motor. Easy as pie. Line it up with the old belt on, then take it all apart and put the new belt in its place (verifying, of course, that everything remained lined up and if not, get it lined back up). You need to be prepared to do a lot of things that are all pretty easy: Drain coolant, remove hoses, remove belts, remove the water pump, remove the tensioner bearing and spring assembly, remove the crankshaft nut, clean mating surfaces, and then go back and put it all together with new parts and fill with coolant.

The shop manual procedure is straightforward, except you don't need the weird looking tool they mount to the camshaft wheels. They will stay lined up if your careful. The aux shaft wheel you just double and triple check while installing the belt.

[majicwrench]

He's charging you a high, but reasonable fair price. I always start high when I quote someone, tis much easier to give it to the customer for less than to have it come to more.

If it was doing it in a "backyard" situation, and I was not familiar with it......if it aint leaking oil from the front, leave the seals alone. If it is leaking, that becomes your decision. Removing pullys and seals will add a lot of complexity. Other than a a little oil on the driveway ( something is ALWAYS gonna leak) mildly leaking seals no big deal.
Same with water pump. Planning a cross county trip?? Change it. Other than that, if it aint broke...give it a spin with belt off, should feel smooth, should not be able to wiggle pulley.

The one thing with the belt that is gonna give you issues if you are not prepared is the crank nut. Get the right socket, get a chain wrench, get a couple of cheater pipes.

Good thinkin bout changing belt. Ya don't want it to break, and these are not long-lived belts.
Keith

[DaveT]

Bill,
When i first got my Spider, I did the belt, tensioner, water pump, hoses etc. i didn't do the seals because they were clean and not leaking. Before starting i prowled this site and mirafiori.com, did a lot of 'cutting and pasting' of posts and created a notebook of repair how-to's in addition to getting the Haynes and Brookland manuals. Brad's post pretty much sums it up, IMO. You do not need to have high level mechanical skills to do this, just read up on it first from those who have done it you'll learn some tricks that can make the job less intimidating.

[ylbill]

Thanks for encouraging words guys. I'm feeling like I can ( maybe? )tackle this now with some guidance through this forum. I'm going to put it off until I'm ready to put the car away for the winter. I'm not ready to do that yet. I think we have some nice fall days still to come, and I want to enjoy some of them if I can.

[81SPIDERMATT]

Thanks for encouraging words guys. I'm feeling like I can ( maybe? )tackle this now with some guidance through this forum.

been there.... no way could i do it.... encouragement and tips from this site and i have done all that and much more.... YOU CAN DO IT... so gratifying ... so proud.... and not that hard.... and the confidence that you gain is amazing... slow and steady wins the race..... dont guess.... ask and receive in abundance .... did i mention... YOU CAN DO IT

[Fi8spider]

Like Brad mentions, line it all up with the old belt first, the rest is pretty much nuts and bolts. New tensioner bearing would be good and as Keith says don't bother with the seals if they are ok, they all get a little "wet" over time but thats fairly nornmal and really nothing much to worry about unless they are leaking bad.

Water pump I wouldn't bother doing, a quality one will last many years of driving, the W/pump can be removed without touching the timing belt so it's not a matter of "doing it while the T/belt is off".

You can do it!

[dantye]

... Water pump I wouldn't bother doing, a quality one will last many years of driving, the W/pump can be removed without touching the timing belt so it's not a matter of "doing it while the T/belt is off".

You can do it!

My guess is that any car that sat and was not driven for several years will develop a flat or dry, corroded spot on the water pump bearing and it will fail within a few thousand miles or less. If that is your case, IMHO, replace it.

[4uall]

better late than never

http://forum.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtop ... =9&t=13215