Front suspension rebuild

[redek]

Since my mechanic said last year that my ball joints were going out, I think it is time to rebuild the front suspension. The fiat has been in the garage since the summer so I am in no danger of losing a wheel. I plan on rebuilding each side separately, and wish to do the following:
Remove and sand blast upper and lower control arms, paint with por-15 or similar paint.
Remove and paint springs.
Install delrin bushings.
Replace Lower ball joints (I assume upper ball joints take more abuse, and don't last as long. Or is it best to replace all four since the suspension will be dismantled?)
Mend any minimal rust within the wheel well.
Replace wheel bearings.
Replace shocks.
Luckily there is a blast cabinet at work, so that should be quite simple. Is there anything I am missing? Should bump stops, and spring rubber be replaced at the same time? How do you gain access to torque the control arms, while they are supporting the car?

Thanks for your help!
Derek

[redcars]

The delrin bushings may give you a harsh ride, but will give good wheel control. You may want to think of this when doing your toe alinement.
If I was going to that much work I would replace the upper ball joints as well.
As for torqueing the a arm shafts support the hubs with a stand or jack stands so the car is at ride hight.

[kolls]

I am in the process of rebuilding the front suspension.. i took my upper and lower control arm bushings and had them powder coated along with my springs ( springs are Yellow). Time consuming to say the least. por_15 is expensive and powder coating is fairly inexpensive.. cost me 60 dollars to have all of it powder coated... i would clean the wheel bearings and inspect them before going and buying a new set. might just need to repack them..

[vandor]

I just took the last of the delrin bushings out of my Spider. Too harsh, and the upper ones changed the alignment after every drive. I would avoid them.

The lower BJs hold the weight of the car, so they take more abuse. The upper ones are easier to change, so you can skip those is they have no play and the boots look good.

Remember to torque the bushing pivot bolts with weight on the suspension.

[124JOE]

when i did my front end i wanted the uppers to be free floating
so with the upper BJ still apart i tightened the pivot bolt untill the upper arm stayed up on its own
then loosened it just untill it fell

did i do it wrong?

[vandor]

when i did my front end i wanted the uppers to be free floating
so with the upper BJ still apart i tightened the pivot bolt untill the upper arm stayed up on its own
then loosened it just untill it fell

did i do it wrong?

Yes. Assuming they are rubber bushing. You need to torque them to the factory spec.
The way they are now, the upper pivot bolt can move in its tube, allowing for alignment changes.

[124JOE]

sorry they are delrin
and the tubes seem to wobble out at the ends
probably from being loose to begin with

[redek]

I just took the last of the delrin bushings out of my Spider. Too harsh, and the upper ones changed the alignment after every drive. I would avoid them.

Could you elaborate why the bushings changed the alignment? I was under the impression that delrin prevented the alignment from changing. Do the control arms move in more than one axis?

Thanks

[vandor]

Could you elaborate why the bushings changed the alignment? I was under the impression that delrin prevented the alignment from changing. Do the control arms move in more than one axis?
Thanks

The stock rubber bushings have a steel sleeve in the center. When you tighten the pivot bolt, these sleeves get held to the body and do not move. My delrin bushings had no sleeve, so as the a-arm rotated up and down and they moved against the body, they were free to wander, within whatever play is in the upper pivot bolt (a few mm in any direction). After a while they had rubbed against the body enough that they wore a bit, and than they were really loose and clunking.
Any bushing has to have a center steel sleeve that is clamped to the body by the pivot bolt to work properly.

[redek]

Thanks for your reply Csaba. I have decided to use rubber bushings.

Now another question. I am now ready to remove the ball joints. Will a pickle fork be ok, or should I rent/buy a special tool. I will be replacing these components so damage to them is acceptable, but i don't want to damage the knuckle.

Thanks,
Derek

[dmwhiteoak]

Derik, You can use a pickle fork to remove the ball joints. Mine were not hard at all to remove as the PO in the past, at least the third one before me, used never seize when installing them. I have been working on mine all day and made some progress but not as I had hoped for. The tie rods give me more trouble than anything. Maybe we can help each other on this. Have you started disassembly ?

[redek]

Yes, tonight I took out the spring and shock. It took longer than I would have liked, because the spring compressor I rented from autozone didn't fit very well. I will be looking for a spring compressor that fits the inside of the spring, instead of the outside. If anyone has a suggestion for a specific spring compressor model, let me know.
My fiat is on jack stands, but wasn't high enough for the shock to drop free, so I cut the shock apart with my grinder. It is probably the best tool I have bought to work on my car. The control arms will come off early next week, and I will sand blast and paint them (probably with por-15).
I have some rust on the shock tower, and but I will be able to repair it. It has a few holes, but isn't riddled with rust like some unfortunate cars on the site. The "engineers" did an absolute terrible job at designing the shock towers, they seem to hold any water and then rust out.
I think I will leave the tie rod ends for the person that does an alignment when I am finished. I don't want to mess with the steering geometry to a point where I can't drive it to the shop when I am done.

Derek

[124JOE]

i eyeballed my alinement and it worked out great

[redek]

Its been nearly five months since I began this topic, and the fiat has been off the road nearly a year. I would like to share some things I have learned. Saturday I finished rebuilding my front suspension. New control arms, shocks, bearings, and a brake job. And after many hours of work, I am done cursing at my fiat, for a short while...

I began attempting to rebuild the control arms, and quickly realized (in my case) that it was a waste of time. I do have access to a blasting cabinet, and an old rusty upper arm took nearly an hour to clean up. The old control arms were well worn, and a ball joint had been poorly replaced causing the surface to me marred and ruined.

The springs on the other hand turned out quite nice, they were blasted and painted with por-15. While the control arms were off I used a wire wheel (with a respirator) to remove the old cracked undercoating in the wheel well and painted with por-15. I intend on going through the complete wheel wells and under body.

I reassembled the suspension and decided last week that I should have removed all of the factory camber washers. 4+ hours down the drain disassembling and promptly reassembling the left front suspension (I am getting really good at this procedure). Last week I also noticed that both tie rods and ends needed to be replaced, instead of just one set. I had to jerry-rig a previously "rented" tie rod puller by:
1. Using a grinder to make a socket fit over mushroomed hex end of oem brand tie rod puller
2. cutting off lower tie rod end (leaving ball)
3. placing open ended wrench between idler/steering arm and ball
4. place threaded rod of puller against tapered part of tie rod end and legs of tie rod puller around open ended wrench
5. have assistant use a ridiculously long extension and ratchet placed though the engine bay and pop that tie rod end out, while you maintain the proper orientation of the tools. Also keep your head away from underside of car. Ideally right against door/rocker panel. (just to be safe)
Csaba promptly shipped me the parts on Wednesday and they arrived on Friday, the 2 day shipping was defiantly worth it.

I went in to Les Schwab today and dropped the fiat off to have an alignment and new tires installed. I went with the thunderer, mostly because no other shops had a 165/80r13 or a 165r13, (discount tire wanted me to go somewhere else for an alignment, and get a non-stock size ) and the kuhmo didn't seem to be worth the extra cost. I am a slow driver, rarely speed and have had no accidents or moving violations EVER. I am finally reaping those rewards with cheap insurance. I assume that nearly any tire made today will have higher quality of manufacture and materials then a tire made in the 70's, probably even including tires from China. The alignment went well, everything is in spec. And I was able to drive it around tonight.

If you intend to store a car for any length of time just use some stabil. It preserves the fuel and allows your car to start RIGHT up after it sits. If I didn't use it I would currently be rebuilding my 32/36 dfev.

Thanks to the forum members and autoricambi.com/Csaba and Ramzi, and Mark (they both sell some really great items, which have made the fiat more reliable and enjoyable to drive). Everyone has really helped me out the last year and a half.

[124JOE]

thats great
im also have a hard time finding tires


happy motoring