Tips on starter replacement?

[spider79]

Does anyone have any tips on replacing a starter? Mine went out today and I ended up pushing it back into the shop.

I've got it up on jackstands, and the new starter is ordered. Access sure is limited. My factory Fiat Shop repair manual says to disconnect the cables from the starter from the engine compartment, but since I have a '79 with the emission control system and vaccuum hoses in place, I'm not sure I can even reach it without removing the intake manifold.

I've already got the wheels turned to the right in order to move the steering gear out of the way for easier access from underneath.

Would this be a good time to just start eliminating vaccuum hoses?

[ventura ace]

1) Disconnect battery first, or else you'll be sure to see sparks fly when you accidentally short out the live wire that runs straight fromt the battery to the starter.
2) Disconnect wires at the starter. Should be one 13mm nut to remove, allowing removal of a couple of wires, then one wire connected via a push on connector.
3) With car up on jack stands high enough to crawl underneath, work from the underside to remove the 3 starter attachment bolts. You'll need a 13mm socket, a swivel, and about 2 - 3 feet of extensions of various lengths. The lower most 2 bolts, you can possilbly see, the topmost one you'll have to locate by feel if you can bend your hand and arms in the space between the bell housing and tunnel. With the 3 bolts out, the starter is free to be removed. I've never successfully removed mine from below -- always had to slide it forward and out near the front of the engine -- may have to remove a thing or 2 in order to clear a path. No, you shouldn't need to remove the intake manifold.

Good luck with it! The first time is a bear, but it gets easier after you've been thru it a few times. I can probably take a starter out blindfolded by now . Shoot, might as well be. It's too tight to see anything in there anyway!!

Alvon

[spider79]

Alvon,

The battery is already disconnected. I had to disconnect the battery cable in order to stop the starter from spinning and smoking!

Thanks for the tips. That's pretty much what I thought from looking. However, I'm not sure how I'm going to even reach the nut that holds the wires on the starter, let alone how I'm going to squeeze it out the front of the engine compartment. There's so much vaccuum crap in the way, it's amazing. It sounds like the "feel method" is going to be how it gets done.

On an unrelated note....... Does a dry steering box creak constantly? This is a "resurrect from the dead" project that has been parked for years.

[mdrburchette]

Can you reach the starter wire connectors from under the car? I thought the toughest part of the job was getting those suckers reconnected! Especially the little spade connector for the solenoid. I'm wondering if it would be easier to get the starter off, then pull the wires. I haven't tried it that way.

[Danno]

You don't NEED to remove the intake manifold, BUT you are right, the starter will be very accessible with it gone. I suggest you take this opportunity to ditch the smog crap, and even yank off the old manifold/carb and replace them both. Having done this, I just can't imagine having tried to keep that old system going, unless you have to for emissions reasons. The engine is just so stinking pretty without all those weird colored vacuum tubes running in a mess all over the place!

[So Cal Mark]

you certainly don't need to remove the intake manifold. If you can't reach the post on the solenoid, access it from in front of the crossmember with a long extension and a swivel socket just like you're going to do with the 3 bolts holding the starter to the bellhousing. I always drop the starter out from the bottom. Remove the clutch cable from the clutch fork first

[spider79]

I crawled back under there this morning. It looks like it will just fit out from underneath, but all the nuts and bolts are definately going to come out with the feel method. You can't see anything!

The new Starter won't be here until tomorrow afternoon, so I've got some time to fiddle with it.

[Ozzie]

Best of luck. I had my nephew with midget hands helping and it still took most of the day.
Make sure the new one has fresh grease on the moving bits that engages the gear.

Dry steering boxes will creak as well as suspension rubbers, tie rods etc.

[spider79]

Ozzie,

I'm trying to think of anyone I can who's smaller than I am to enlist to help. I wish I had a nephew with midget hands I could draft for the cause.

Alas, I think it's all on me!

[mbouse]

unless you are operating with a stock 79 or newer intake, how much more work is it REALLY to remove the intake/carb assembly so you can reach the top side of the starter?

i've yanked an intake or two recently, and i honestly don't think it takes that much effort do pull & reinstall one.

i can only imagine the Italian curse words that would flow from my garage if i attempted to pull and replace a starter on either Spider here...strictly from underneath. the day i drilled a hole thru my finger would register higher on the swear count, but not by much.

just my untested opinion.

[Danno]

unless you are operating with a stock 79 or newer intake, how much more work is it REALLY to remove the intake/carb assembly so you can reach the top side of the starter?

i've yanked an intake or two recently, and i honestly don't think it takes that much effort do pull & reinstall one.

i can only imagine the Italian curse words that would flow from my garage if i attempted to pull and replace a starter on either Spider here...strictly from underneath. the day i drilled a hole thru my finger would register higher on the swear count, but not by much.

just my untested opinion.

well, that's what I was thinking, but I've not the experience you do, I've only had it off once, but it seemed so freaking easy!

[mbouse]

right, danno. we've had those intakes off and on so many times recently we could do it with our eyes closed.......oh, wait! there's nothing to see for half those fittings anyway. I'm not recommending this if you intend to reinstall the 79-80 carb'd emission system....and have no experience with a fuelie system, so I am not recommending anything for FI . but, for an 1800 (or less) intake, it just looks too easy to pull that equipment and have room...see...and get assistance to change a starter. could someone with experience tell me what I am missing?

and, if that intake hasn't been off in a while, when it is removed, there are several other maintenance items that can better be addressed at the same time. any clue on when your cyclone trap was cleaned, or the hoses replaced for the crankcase breather system?

[mbouse]

is the steering box full of 80-90 gear oil?

[spider79]

I am dealing with a stock 79 intake manifold and carb, so, I'm hesitant to just start removing stuff. I've actually got it running pretty well at the moment.

BUT, replacing the intake manifold and carb with a better version was on my list of things to do this winter, so removing it, and the vaccuum lines and polution control equipment wouldn't kill me. The only thing that's stopping me from just ripping the intake, carb and 79 vaccuum mess is that I don't have a replacement intake and carb on hand, yet.

I just picked the new starter up from the parts store a few minutes ago. Looking at it, I can at least tell where the third bolt should be located. I've got the two easy ones out. I also just noticed that if I go ahead and drain the oil and remove the oil filter, I should be able to reach the wiring on the front of the starter. I'm due for an oil change anyway, so getting that oil filter out of the way should at least give me the room to get my arm up in their to pull the two nuts and wiring off the front of the old starter. There's no human way I can reach it under the intake manifold from the top of the car with all the vaccuum hoses in the way.

[spider79]

I'm going after the steering box before the car hits the ground again. I haven't even checked it yet.

I forgot to mention that the BIGGEST reason I don't want to turn a running car into a non running car right now is that I pushed it into the entrance of the garage bay at my work. Even though it's my own business, I have the whole entrance to my shop blocked by a non running monstrosity on jackstands.