No vacuum advance & ignition problems

Danno · Post by **Danno** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:44 pm

So Cal Mark wrote:a shorted tach can stop ign spark. When cranking the tach needle should flutter just a bit.

this could be my problem (or at least one of them

), Thanks Mark!

Danno · Post by **Danno** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:01 pm

grrrr. seriously, you learn a lot by reading through stuff on these fiat forums. My dual point dizzy, I'm finding was installed incorrectly. tell me if this sounds right.

Another guy had a similar problem with his installation. He said the PO had the two seperate points wires from his distributer were both wired together into the coil. This is sooo wrong, the responders told him. One point is for starting, and the other set is for running. By wiring the two together you are basically just firing twice 10 degrees apart. One solution, they suggest, is to disconnect one wire, that will make it act like a single point dizzy.

Sound kosher?

Am i running into enough crap to buy a whole new ignition system of some sort? a Crane XR700 conversion? How about a junkyard system of an 80 carbed spider. Anyone know where I can find one?

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:34 pm

the PO you referred to doesn't know what he was talking about; pretty obvious he doesn't understand ign basics. Fiat used dual points as you described; one set for starting, another for running. They opened at different times to change the timing. Mostly an emissions issue so the car would start, but then meet emission limits by retarding the timing.

Now, back in the days of points and condensors, perf people wanted hotter spark. The way to build hotter spark is with more coil saturation time. That requires points gap that are unrealistic, so with dual points that overlapped, a longer coil saturation time was acheived. If you wire both sets of points in your Fiat together, that's what you've converted the system to.
Most of the Spiders that I've seen that still have dual points are only running on one set. Most of the switches or relays have quit working by this time

Danno · Post by **Danno** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:39 pm

so I can clip the wire to one of the points?

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:55 pm

why cut the wire? More than likely you're only using one set anyway. If I'm converting just to one set of points, I remove the ign relay and use a jumper wire. That way I always have spare points and condensor available in case of failure

Danno · Post by **Danno** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:01 pm

So Cal Mark wrote:why cut the wire? More than likely you're only using one set anyway. If I'm converting just to one set of points, I remove the ign relay and use a jumper wire. That way I always have spare points and condensor available in case of failure

ok. thanks for being patient with me. Do I sound a little overwhelmed with this project? 'Cause I'm feeling like I am. I figure if I fix one little thing at a time, I'll eventually get it all sorted out.

mbouse · Post by **mbouse** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:05 pm

excuse the ignorance, please. i was trying to follow this thread.

Why did the dizzy go retro to a '78 ??

are you really cool with this change, or will you be going back to electronic ignition at a future date?

Danno · Post by **Danno** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:09 pm

mbouse wrote:excuse the ignorance, please. i was trying to follow this thread.

Why did the dizzy go retro to a '78 ??

are you really cool with this change, or will you be going back to electronic ignition at a future date?

Who knows why it has the old dual-point in it? PO was my BIL, I know he didn't touch a thing on it. Guy before him seems to have had some automotive knowledge and fiddled with the car in more ways than I may ever know.

I do not want a point system ignition, I want electronic. but for now, I want running as cheaply as possible. I'm open to any suggestions.

mbouse · Post by **mbouse** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:17 pm

gotcha on the cheap for now part. i fully understand the desire to get some miles under your belt.

i think i could help you find a stock ignition (electronic) when you are ready. that is, unless you already have sources of your own.

Danno · Post by **Danno** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:19 pm

mbouse wrote:gotcha on the cheap for now part. i fully understand the desire to get some miles under your belt.

i think i could help you find a stock ignition (electronic) when you are ready. that is, unless you already have sources of your own.

I don't have a source, so if you got one, shoot me an email sometime. I keep thinking to myself there has to be a junk yard near me with some old fiats sitting in it just waiting to be discovered by ME.

mbouse · Post by **mbouse** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:21 pm

first place i would start is with our ole buddy raceydave.

he is going to a 'high tech' distributorless ignition for his '79 this fall....yanking out his stock ignition.

and I will email you some other sources...

manoa matt · Post by **manoa matt** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:34 pm

You could buy this remanufactured distributor/cap/rotor/contol module: http://www.partsamerica.com/ShoppingCart.aspx

And buy this coil: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

Which all together is just over $200

Or I have two complete coil/dist setups from a 79. Both have an original fiat distributor, original coil and aluminum heat sink. New rotor button, new cap, new pickup, new vac advance, and new contol module. for $195 plus shipping. (don't know shipping at this point)

I'll even include a nicely chromed stubby 17mm wrench to tighten the hold down nut, which will now be harder to get to because of the vac advance. I was going to put these two setups on ebay next week.

They are pretty much exactly like this, but look a little better: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 01306&rd=1

matt

mbouse · Post by **mbouse** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:46 am

I like to use a 17mm crow foot and a 3/8" extension on my ratchet for the dizzy bolt.