No vacuum advance & ignition problems

Danno · Post by **Danno** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:45 am

Shouldn't my 80 (carb'd) have a vacuum advance on the distributor? This has kinda been bugging me, every manual I have shows it there, do I need it? won't that cause issues?

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:53 am

it should have vacuum advance, but if it's gone maybe a PO added more mechanical advance in the conversion. Check the total timing

mbouse · Post by **mbouse** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:46 pm

Or maybe a PO just replaced the dizzy with an older version.

do you really ever know why PO's do what they do?

spider79 · Post by **spider79** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:22 pm

Old automobile tinkering sure would be easier if every P.O. included a homemade manual of all the modifications they did.

I really, really, really dread tracing electrical issues because of the obvious P.O. wiring modifcations I've already noticed.

Danno · Post by **Danno** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:28 pm

how do the older ones advance their timing? are there markings that will help me figure it out?

racydave · Post by **racydave** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:07 pm

Ive modified mine to run off of the centrifugal advance only. With the cap off, you can rotate the rotor against the cent. adv. springs. I belive my 79 is pretty dialed in, and even though opinions vary, I think youre better off without it, especially with your new mods! This winter you should send it off for a total re-curve! This to me is as important as the carb upgrade itself, esp on a 79, or 80. Next is a new system without a dizzy at all, maybee even runnin soon!!!

manoa matt · Post by **manoa matt** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:34 pm

The older points type distributors only use centrifugal advance, in conjunction with the switching of starting to running points. The weights and advance plate are located under the points plate, down in the body of the distributor. There should be a number stamped on the advance plate near the weights that indicates how much advance. I think total advance for a points type is around 36 deg.

I have a 78 that I switched to an electronic distributor from a 79. I have two used distributors that I believe were origional fiat parts. The advance plate and weights are located under the rotor button. Both distributors have 11 degrees stamped on the advance plate. Static advance is 10 deg, plus 11 deg of centrifugal, plus 14-16 deg from the vacume (IAP sells three different vac advance units of varying advance)

I recently bought an A-1 Cardone remanufactured distributor (79 version) Not only was the centrifugal advance more (16 degrees) but the design of the stator was different.

I think the origional Fiat stator looked like this:http://www.flickr.com/photos/38097470@N00/1455721826/

And the A-1 Cardone reman unit stator looks like this (a bit exagerated):http://www.flickr.com/photos/38097470@N00/1455721836/

I'm not shure how this will effect the performance, I'm up on jack stands right now installing a header and complete exhaust and waighting on a radiator re core.

Danno · Post by **Danno** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:22 pm

so, i can confirm it is the older dual point centrifugal advance type distributor. I can also confirm that it was connected to a bosche coil and the module thingy was still sitting there on the inner fender behind the coil but unconnected. Per my manual I checked the ohms on the coil and it's out of specs. I don't have it sitting here with me at this moment, just take my word on it.

So, what's the right thing to do at this point? Money is tight, so do I just replace with one of the bosch blue coils, or should I wait until I can afford it and convert it back to the electronic ignition.

The PO must have either had an old donor car for these parts, or had an old car he liked better and stole them from this car for it. anyway, advice is welcome at this point....

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:59 pm

what problem are you trying to cure? does the car run?

Danno · Post by **Danno** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:27 am

so, i can confirm it is the older dual point centrifugal advance type distributor. I can also confirm that it was connected to a bosche coil and the module thingy was still sitting there on the inner fender behind the coil but unconnected. Per my manual I checked the ohms on the coil and it's out of specs (i think).

it was reading 1.4ohms on the primary winding and 7,900 on the secondary. if this coil is supposed to be the same as the Marelli or the Martinetti Coils then that 1.4 is off (marelli 2.59 to 2.81, martinetti 2.60 to 2.95) the secondary winding is fine by both. Anyone confirm that this is off for a bosch? Here is what I can tell you about the one i found in the carthe top is copper colored plastic, it is black, there is the number "1" printed on the top beside the - terminal, and there is the number "15" printed next to the + terminal. on the bottom it has the number "0 221 122 012" and the number "827" and the number "050" in a little circle, and also "KW 12 V"

So, what's the right thing to do at this point? Money is tight, so do I just replace with one of the bosch blue coils, or should I wait until I can afford it and convert it back to the electronic ignition.

The PO must have either had an old donor car for these parts, or had an old car he liked better and stole them from this car for it. anyway, advice is welcome at this point....

Danno · Post by **Danno** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:29 am

So Cal Mark wrote:what problem are you trying to cure? does the car run?

no, i can't start it. it seems to spark sometimes. i even got it to run for over a minute last weekend. but not again.

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:30 pm

could be as simple as a bad condensor if the spark is erratic. You could do without the condensor for a short time just to test.

Danno · Post by **Danno** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:54 am

here's my coil, BTW. I'll give it a try without the condenser if you think it might help, thanks Mark. Still, though, I'm wondering about those specs on the coil. Any help would be appreciated.

Danno · Post by **Danno** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:41 pm

the questions keep coming. I found something in another thread regarding someone's car not starting because of the wire to the Tach(?) could this be a problem? if there is a short to the tach could that cause problems? I don't know that my tach is working. Will the tach read very low rpms even while trying to start? (it should, right?). I checked all the fuses when I thought my fuel tank sender was screwy, so I know fuses are ok.

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:43 pm

a shorted tach can stop ign spark. When cranking the tach needle should flutter just a bit.