Building my engine

[wachuko]

As I continue to work on making the car road worthy I want to start documenting the changes for the engine that will finally go in the car. Most of the stuff as far as the internal modifications goes, is way over my head, so you will see me asking a lot of questions and relying of those here with years of experience doing these mods... you have been warned

EDIT - Goal is to get a reliable engine for street use. So no wild cams or anything like that... NA and dual carburetors.

I will start with the engine taken out of the '83.

I need to extend the bolts/spacers in the engine stand to have the space to work on the rear main seal... either that or make a stand that will hold the engine at the engine mounts instead of the back.

The alternator lower bolt is frozen in place... no amount of impact gun, penetrating oil, long bar, will get it loose... so I am planning on removing the mount and finding a good used one to replace it.

Modifications planned (thank you Mark and Randy for your suggestions!):

I like the looks of the dual carburetors...even if I loose 10hp by going with them instead of a single setup... so out goes the fuel injection and in goes Marks HIGH RISE IDF MANIFOLD , intake/Empi carb/air cleaner/sync adapter. Cost aprox US$1200.00

I have this engine (Ken's) as inspiration.



Headers from Mark (well, actually, complete exhaust system). Cost aprox US$1500.00


Distributorless Ignition from Mark as well. $550 + Shipping

Clean, powdercoat, and paint as I go... again, using Ken's engine as inspiration. In my case I am going with different hues of blues for the engine block and auxiliaries..



Heads... will need to look for one from an 1592 engine.

Pistons... need to look for a set as well with the flat top

A few photos of current state. As always, will document as I take stuff out, clean, paint, etc...

[wachuko]

Please make comments, suggestions... heck, even jokes are welcomed.

List of parts needed (updating as I learn or work on it):

Main Bearing Set - (SKU 56-2662.std) - 38.05
Piston Ring Set - (SKU 56-7645.std) - 55.50
Rod Bearing Set - (SKU 56-2661.std) - 24.50
Rod Bolt - (SKU 56-8697) - 14.85 * 8 = 118.80
Rod Nut - (SKU 56-8622) - 7.95 * 4 = 63.60
Gasket Set Complete - (SKU 40-4356) - 57.95
Water Pump - (SKU 11-9389) - 43.80
Timing Belt - (SKU 03-6639) - 17.85
Tensioner Bearing - (SKU 02-4303) - 37.95
Freeze Plug Kit - (SKU 11-1600) - $12.00

Valve Guide - (SKU 14-4608) - 4.55 * 8 = 36.40
Stem Seals Valve - (SKU 14-7615) - 1.50 * 8 = 12.00

Machine shop work for honing the cylinders, balance engine, lightening and balancing the flywheel - $$??

Exhaust System - 1,500.00
Dual Carburetor Setup (intake/Empi carb/air cleaner/sync adapter) - 1,100.00
Distributorless Ignition - 550.00

[Foster48x]

heck, even jokes are welcomed.

Ok Jaime I'll take the bait...

200hp . Save yourself the time a money and throw one of these on it!

[wachuko]

OK, OK... I should have started by asking what is a realistic hp gain with bolt on mods for a reliable daily driver...

The setup in your photo might be too hot for the children seating in the back seat

heck, even jokes are welcomed.

Ok Jaime I'll take the bait...

200hp . Save yourself the time a money and throw one of these on it!

[Europa]

Jaime, is forced induction an option or are you going strictly NA?

[wachuko]

Jaime, is forced induction an option or are you going strictly NA?

Strictly NA... going for the looks and sound of an normally aspirated car. I had my share of Turbo cars and those just don't have the sound I am looking for... they have the acceleration and provide a sweet rush when the turbo kicks in... but a bit plain on the sound. I want a car that sounds fast even if it is going at normal speeds plus I am a sucker for how an engine bay looks with a set of carburetors... maybe I am getting old...

In my ideal world... the engine would sound like an F1 car and rev to 14,000rpms But I know I am not going to get that with this car... anything that will get me closer to that would be sweet (without spending tons of $$ of course).

[baltobernie]

As a principal supplier, Mark should be able to tell you what numbers are probable with this intake/exhaust and various camshafts.

[Fiat88]

Can't wait for progress pics.

[narfire]

Are you contemplating just bolt on or perhaps a bit of engine work?(send out) There are oversize pistons out there that can offer a bit more compression and at the same time have all the pistons,rods and rotating stuff inc. the shaved flywheel, balanced. Does the 1592 head bolt on?(80 mm) Perhaps the 1800 head might be a bit better, at least they were both 84mm bores. Oversized valves in the 1800 head?
Eye's thinks 200 hp would be a bit much for a street driver, but I'd take a guess 140- or so would be do-able for a 2000 pound car. I'm sure several here are there and can comment further.

[manoa matt]

140hp will be the limit of the stock trans and rear diff. above that you will need a 131 trans, and/or a ford 9" rear end modified to fit. 200hp naturally aspirated will be extreemly difficult unless every single part is worked over to GC specs.

Using stock components from various years can produce a pretty good engine, but it will have limitations.

The popular bolt on mod is a 1.8L head on a 2L block. The 1592cc head is identical to the 1.8L except it dosen't have the air injection ports. There are two problems with this mod. First you only gain .5 compression bump. Stock compression is 8.1:1 with the mod you get to 8.6:1 For any kind of serious HP you need to get the compression much higher, like 10:1
Second is the 1592 and 1.8L heads have smaller combustion chambers, which is good for the compression bump, but the squish band hinders flame propigation in the high range. The hp and torque will be great up to around 4000rpms, but fall off drastically after that.

A co-worker has a 2L block, 1.8 head, Mark's headers, and a 32/36 DFEV on a 1.8L intake manifold. There are no other internal engine mods. The car has great torque and can come off a standing stop in 3rd gear, but the motor dosen't want or need to go above 3500rpms, just where the TC motor is getting into the power band.

Your best bet is to use the 2L block, and 2L FI head and fit HC pistons to get the compression in the 9.8:1 to 10:1 range. You will need more agressive cams too. Just bolting on a set of carbs and tubular exhast will not produce much on a stock engine.

All the power is in the head, compression ratio, and cams, in that order. Your best bet is to get a copy of Guy Croft's book.

For suggestions and entertainment check out the "race motor" thread. Very similar thread over on turbo124.com about engine transplants that is absolutely hilarious.

[maytag]

Does the 1592 head bolt on?(80 mm) Perhaps the 1800 head might be a bit better, at least they were both 84mm bores. Oversized valves in the 1800 head?

Yeah, I'd like to hear more about this too, from those in the know.

edit: whoops! I'm too slow on the keyboard! Manoa Matt has already answered this above!

[manoa matt]

I'm guessing either the truth hurts, you don't think I know, or you don't read very well. I've got a 1592 head, and (2) 1800 heads on my bench right now, they are virtually the same with the exceptions noted above. One major difference is the port wall thickness. On 1.8 and 2L heads the wall thickness between the intake and exhaust runners and the coolant galleys is around 5mm while the 1592 head has 8mm of material between the port wall and the coolant galleys. Therefore the later heads should provide better cooling, however the 1592 head may be "opened up" more.

Despite the bore diameter differences between the 80mm and 84mm the bore center to center spacing is the same, so yes a 1592 head will bolt onto 1.8 and 2L blocks.

[maytag]

I'm guessing either the truth hurts, you don't think I know, or you don't read very well.

Nothing quite so offensive as that, Matt...

I actually hit the "submit" button LONG before I knew you posted your message. My understanding parallels your own, and I actually DO consider you one of "those in the know".

So here's a hi-Five and a "Me-Too!" for your reply above.

My apologies for what must've seemed very rude and dismissive!

[BEEK]

Does the 1592 head bolt on?(80 mm) Perhaps the 1800 head might be a bit better, at least they were both 84mm bores. Oversized valves in the 1800 head?

Yeah, I'd like to hear more about this too, from those in the know.

i have cc'd and dynoed fiat motors using the 1592cc head, short side porting on the intake, big valves, i did prefer 9.8-1 pistons, gave a overall compression racio of 13.5-14-1 in the 2.0l, i did 0 deck height the block. motor made 225hp at the rear wheels with a stock spider 4 speed and a 4.44 fiat rear gear from a 124 wagon. never had gear reliability problems, but i didnt have to shift once in top = 3rd gear. rpm range 5500-8000, using stock crank and rods, ballanced with lightened wrist pins. 10lb flywheel. tryed a 2.0 efi lancia head, we got better #'s on the dyno, even though we lost a little compression, the chamber had better flow charactoristics. did mill the head until i had to stop to keep from removing the intake valve seat. tryed many cams. different ones work better in different applications.

we took a 2.0l bottom end, put 1800, small flycut pistons, 1592 head big valves short side only porting, stock early 124 cams, 74 spider intake and exhaust manifold, lengthened the secondary runners 12", then 3" exhaust exiting behind the passengers door, same gearing combo as earlyer discussed and made 145 rwhp on a superflow chassis dyno.

[wachuko]

Thank you all for the contributions so far! Can't wait to get started!!!! Should be able to start taking apart the engine the week after next... got some work related travel this week and at the end of the month... must keep working to support the passion for cars...