Timing Belt: Next question

[Tango]

I am dealing here with an 81 Fiat 2000, replacing the timing belt. That's as far as I got tonight, then I had to put the tools aside for the evening. I'm a beginner here...

I have the outer cover off now, so that I can see the belt and pulleys. I dont have the inner sheet metal cover off yet. I have a couple of questions:

1. The crankshaft pulley notch is lined up with the 0 deg timing mark, and the holes on the cam shaft pulleys align with the pointers correctly. However, I can't see the indicator hole or any mark onthe aux drive pulley. Can it be that I have to rotate the crank pulley through another 360 degrees, i.e. that the mark on the aux drive pulley comes up only once for every two revolutions of the cam shafts? Yeah, I could have found that out myself, but I will be away from the car for a couple of days now and I have to be able to sleep tonight.

2. With the e-brake on pretty hard and the car in first gear, back wheels chocked, when I try to loosen the crankshaft pulley nut, I can turn the engine backwards (plugs are out). I turned the pulley the better part of a third of a turn backwards and had to realize that I will never get the pulley off with an extension bar by just turning it counterclockwise by brute force like that. Should I have it in fifth gear so that I have less mechanical advantage when turning the crank pulley?? I seem to recall dire warnings against winding the engine backwards and I don't want to do something that I can't undo here.

Every reference I have just says "remove the crankshaft pulley". What's the trick here? Then again some say, including my Haynes manual (which is really not for this engine) that you MAY have to remove the crankshaft pulley.

And the engine does turn the crankshaft in CW direction when viewed from the front and the pulley nut / bolt is a RH thread, right?

[Tango]

Sorry, I did a better search and answered some of my own questions. but not all. It seems that I am going to have to borrow a compressor and impact wrench somewhere, and with extensions and universal go in through the grill to get at the crankshaft pulley. Unluckily, my neighbour's compressor just quit on him.

[manoa matt]

Sometimes you can slip the belt in between the pully and the aluminum flange. Easier on early models, but I've done it on a 2L with the bigger flange.

[Tango]

It may sound obsessive, but I had to sacrifice some sleep and go take another look at it. So, what I learned is that for every time the crankshaft lines up with zero timng mark, the camshaft pulleys and aux drive pulley go around 1/2 times. However, when at zero on the crankshaft, the aux drive pulley does become visible, but it is at either just before 12 or 6 oclock !! And when the crank and cam pulleys are where they ought to be, it so happens that it is at about 6 oclock.

So it seems that my aux drive pulley has been about 60 degrees too far CW for a long time.

Any other possible explanation???

I also gave the crank pulley nut another hit of liquid wrench and will try again with the car in 5th gear and wheels blocked to see if I can move the pulley, but otherwise will have to try and get an impact wrench through the grill and past that big oil cooler.

[rlux4]

The positioning of the aux. pulley is not as critical as the cam or crank pulleys. Just so long as the lobe on it isn't coming up as the #2 piston is coming down. If it is in position where this causes them to meet you'd know it, the least that would happen is you'd hear a very obvious knocking, worst case, broken parts would be trying to exit the side of the block, as Wachuko has shown in recent posts. I like Mark's method for positioning it: point the indicator hole on the pulley at the tensioner pivot bolt.
Ron

[majicwrench]

I have a big adjuistable chain wrench that wraps around the pulley holding it in place. I have several of em, very handy tools for holding things stationary. I'm sure they are available somewhere.
Keith

[Tango]

I'm looking for a chain wrench big enough to wrap around the unused pulley, which I think is about 4-1/2" dia. So far no luck. Small town Canada doesn't have the variety that our American friends do.

But still am sure I will need an impact wrench. I had everything last night to the point where the pulley was no longer moving and pushing on at least a a 3 foot lever length total, with all my strength. I am no lightweight. There must be at least twice the necessary torque on that ........nut.

[manoa matt]

I just took one off last night where the nut was almost rusted on. The nut is installed to 180 foot pounds. You can rent and electric impact wrench for about $20, and it should be good for 250 foot pounds of torque. Try spraying some penetrating oil or PB blaster on it first and let it soak in for a while.

[Tango]

It has been practically marinating in Liquid Wrench for the past week or more.

[launieg]

I used my electric impact wrench. Bought it on sale at Sears for maybe $40. They are generally cheap and even a cheap one should do the job. But be sure to use a good quality flex joint on a half inch socket (from the extension onto the nut). You don't want it to fly apart.

[Tango]

Strange thing is that the impact universal joint that I looked at today only had one pin, i.e. it only flexes one way, not two axes at right angles to each other. I can't see how that will work.
I'll go tool shopping in the morning.

[Tango]

I tried a pneumatic with my father-in-law's wimpy compressor, not expecting success. Then pulled my new Dewalt 293 out of the box. It took several tries. On what was going to be my last try, it started spinning and I thought the socket had come off again. I looked at the socket to see if it was banged up. Unmarked! Then I felt inside the pulley: no nut. There it was, sitting on the frame. That Dewalt has some oomph. This is what success looks like: