Clutch pedal issue

[YoukaiMori]

Well, I got all my electrics working and was gonna take her in for her first proper wash and Lo and behold...

Clutch goes down, clutch does not come back up. I shut her off and lifted the clutch back up. Lifted it and pressed it down by hand to see if something was locking up, didn't seem that way. Left the pedal up while doing some googling, read that it might be the clutch cable. Went back out, tried to press the pedal down and now it's the opposite the pedal is stuck up.

So now the clutch is just stuck, and it's hard to find examples of this series of events on Google do you guys have any experience or any idea where I should start looking here? It drove just fine about 4 days ago and the clutch was working fine just before I started the car up then it stuck,so this happened all at once.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Well, Youkai, it is fairly common that the clutch cable has issues, usually lack of lubrication over the years. But yours sounds totally locked up, which is odd.

But, when you say the pedal is "stuck up", do you mean that you can't move the pedal at all? Even sitting in the seat and pressing hard with your foot? Not to be dense, but you are pressing the clutch pedal and not the brake pedal, right....?

-Bryan

[YoukaiMori]

Definitely pressing the clutch, I put a fair amount of force on it to the point I was worried I might break or bend something if I pushed any harder. It has about a half inch to an inch of play before it just stops dead and won't go further.

[Spider951]

A few possibilities to check: 1. springs - one inside attached to pedal mechanism, and other one under the car connecting clutch lever (sticking out from side of gearbox) to anchor point near rear of gearbox, 2. clutch lever - malfunctioning somehow; it should move back and forth with movement of clutch pedal (need to be under the car while assistant moves clutch pedal to see this in action), 3. clutch pedal, where it rotates on its pivot point, 4. clutch cable - possibly frayed or damaged somehow, resulting in failure to move, 5. clutch - throwout bearing or pivot bolt issues ??. Some of these are quite unlikely, but...

[Akspider]

If it is the clutch cable, make sure you have a good body to engine ground strap (or another from battery negative to engine). Have heard that clutch cable becomes the ground and eventually fails.

[YoukaiMori]

Well, it's disappointing but it looks like she's going back up on jack stands for a while... Damn and I finally got all my signals working and was looking forward to driving properly without hand signalling... Will be checking for basically everything suggested so far then ordering parts by the sound of it, tomorrow morning.

[YoukaiMori]

Back up on stands so I could crawl under and get a look, I'm not exactly sure WHAT I'm supposed to be looking for. Looking at a diagram of the clutch pedal to transmission, the only things that should be able to fail as suddenly as they did would be the cable, springs, or clips.

Exactly what happens when I press the clutch pedal in:
I get around an inch of play then it stops hard, with a bit of force it will "snap" forward just a little bit more and make sort of a pop noise then it hard stops again. Watching the clutch cable/fork while pressing it, the cable moves slightly with the pedal. It does not return after pressing down. Again, what ORIGINALLY happened was I pressed the clutch fully to shift into reverse after starting the car and it wouldn't return at all, I was also able to return it by hand and fully press it by hand 3-4 times before I walked away to research it and it became stuck in the up position.

It's hard to tell from this picture, but is the sort of S shaped clip from the spring misaligned maybe? It looks like it might not be sitting in that groove but I'm not actually sure what it's SUPPOSED to look like so it's hard to tell. I can't find any pictures of these things actually properly set up...


And on the underside, it's a bit dirty (I did clean it up after taking the picture) but I can't see anything wrong, visibly? The clutch cable everywhere that I was able to see looked perfectly fine.

[Spider951]

By the "S" shaped clip, if you mean the end of the spring where it hooks onto the clutch lever, that looks
OK to me. I don't have a clue about the difficulty pushing the pedal/snap action, but my guess is that you may just need a new clutch cable due to your current one hanging up somewhere - probably just wear & tear on the old one. Do you know if it has ever been replaced? Replacement is not a difficult job, except for getting proper placement of the little half-moon shaped crimped stop thing at the pedal end on the new cable - it's just hard to get your hand on it (that part of the job takes patience, needle-nosed plyers, and maybe an assistant - I've read about various methods being used - all require all the swear words you know and then some).
Edit: I just recalled that if you decide to replace the cable and can get the the crimp stop (don't know the proper term for it) in its proper place at the pedal end, it helps to use vise-grips or some method to keep tension on the cable while you fiddle with the hook up under the car (if not the thing will slip out of its place in the pedal mechanism and you have start all over - I've done that more times than I care to admit).
Edit 2: Looks like the rubber boot that fits around your clutch lever is missing. If you are going to do the job it would be good to buy a new replacement (and its orientation in the housing assembly matters- don't ask me how I know about that little pearl of wisdom).

[YoukaiMori]

Well I ordered a new clutch cable, had to buy a couple wrenches too didn't have any that would fit the cable attached at the transmission, hopefully this is all it is, since this isn't hydraulic as far as I can tell I would imagine if it's anything else locking the pedal that it's probably something major.

Also from all the receipts I have I don't think the clutch cable has ever been changed, so yeah makes sense.

[SteinOnkel]

Replace the bushings in the pedal mechanism and the clutch pedal itself too. Check where it goes through the firewall for cracks.

[seawood]

Don't be pressing the clutch pedal if you suspect the cable is seized. The clutch cable movement can get taken up by the fire wall, eventually cracking it. Reparable but you have to take the MC and booster out.
Right in ordering a new cable and installing it. As mentioned, another grounding strap can't hurt either. Careful with the clutch fork as it is not held in place very securely and can pop out. You can put it back in place, but have to do it blind for the most part. Take a look at a clutch diagram with the throw out bearing and fork before messing with the clutch attachment and you should get a decent idea what I'm babbling on about.

Enjoy your time under the dash wrestling the clutch spring back onto the pedal.. ( about my most hated jobs other than brake booster swap)

[18Fiatsandcounting]

It's just weird that there's no clutch movement, even when whaling on it while seated in the car. I would expect it to move somewhat, even if stiff and crusty.

I agree that it's not a bad idea to replace the cable given its age.

Meanwhile, Youkai, one thing you could do is loosen the adjusting nut on the end of the clutch cable, the one on the clutch lever into the bellhousing. Don't take it off completely, but just back it off an inch or so. Check your clutch pedal action again. If exactly the same as before, then yes, it sounds like an issue with the pedal or cable. However, if the pedal now moves 2 or 3 inches before locking up, that would point to something wrong with the clutch itself.

By the way, that S-shaped clip is part of a "clutch helper" mechanism. As best I can figure out, it evens out the clutch pedal action across its range of motion. Makes it more linear. It's an odd duck.

One other thought: Make sure something didn't get jammed behind the clutch pedal, preventing it from going down. Piece of carpet, sound insulation stuff, wires, etc.

-Bryan

[YoukaiMori]

Hadn't posted an update yet since my cable never arrived (Two days late, still processing so I just went ahead and ordered another from a different site... At least I'll have a spare?)

It didn't take me that long to get the old cable out, I was able to pull the cable from the underside of the car where it connects to the clutch and get movement, so I think the clutch itself is still fine. Remember this just suddenly happened without the car even moving, worked one day, completely stuck the next.

After getting the cable out I was able to get a better look at it and found there were a few places where the strands making the cable had frayed or broken. I'm remembering that when I had bought it and first pressed in the clutch it was very... crunchy? For lack of a better term, but after pumping it a couple times it went away and I forgot about it so I'm thinking what I was feeling might have been the cable itself fraying in places from being brittle.

I mean, I'm still not 100% sure it's only the cable, maybe something major happened, but I've got my fingers crossed that this is all it is!

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Let us know how it works when you get the new cable installed. Meanwhile, with the old cable, does the inner cable move at all inside the housing?

One tip: Be careful not to move the clutch lever around too much while the cable is disconnected, as it is attached with a clip to a pivot ball way on the opposite side of the bellhousing, and sometimes the lever slips off. While the lever can be reattached with its clip, it's not the easiest of tasks.

-Bryan

[YoukaiMori]

Got the new cable installed! Wasn't such a bad job, only took maybe fifteen minutes to get the new one in and adjusted it was just filthy.

Old and new cables.


Old cable was COMPLETELY seized, new one works like a charm, no other problems related to the clutch to speak of!

So for future reference....
Clutch pedal sticks to floor then won't budge after lifting it back up? It's a cable problem!