STARTER DOES NOT DIS ENGAGE WHEN KEY IS REMOVED FROM IGNITION

[AVIANO84]

Hi has anyone had this problem, I have a 1984 Pin. Azzurra only during cold months when I go to crank for the first time when engine is cold the starter will crank non stop even if I remove key from ignition until ether the battery dies or I place it into gear .I really do not want to remove the starter due to the difficulty on these cars based on what I have read in this forum on removing the starter . I have removed the ignition coil ( where you put key in) and cleaned and lubricated it with no inprovements , never happens during summer months or after engine is warm and turned off during winter months. Any ideas ?

[RRoller123]

Sounds like the starter solenoid is sticking, probably due to the cold and having sat for awhile. I suppose that it is possible this is inside the ignition switch, but it does not seem likely, as we haven't heard of this before to my knowledge.

[AVIANO84]

ok thanks for your help .

[DieselSpider]

Likely the solenoid or its contact inside the end of it that powers the starter motor is binding in the cold. Simple test when this happens is to pull the wire start wire off the solenoid and if the starter stops turning then put a meter on the wire to see if its still powered. If its still powered then look for a problem with the ignition switch or possibly a short in its wiring. If its not powered then chances are that removing it unstuck the contact in the starter solenoid. If the starter just continues running after you pull the wire then there is no debate, its the solenoid or the contact in the end of it that is sticking.

[RRoller123]

You can see that RED wire coming off the back of the ignition switch, that goes through 3 connectors, but stays RED, and ends up at the starter motor, shown as a coiled up wire there, with the solenoid plunger inside of it. You could pull it at either end to check for the voltage, whichever is easier to get at. It is labeled "50" at both ends in the schematic.

So the only way the starter gets voltage is when that RED wire, "50" has voltage on it from the ignition switch, then the upside down "T" shown, which is the solenoid plunger contact, gets pushed down by the resulting magnetic field from that coiled RED wire, and makes the connection to the battery through that huge dashed black and white wire (not actually black and white, this is just on the schematic).

Therefore, either the ignition switch is sticking and continuously supplying voltage to that RED wire, or the plunger inside the solenoid is sticking and is continuously making that connection to the battery.

[AVIANO84]

Thanks DIESELSPIDER , RROLLER123 when I have a second person avaible to crank the engine and myself at the ready over the engine with a voltmeter ready to test I will see whats happening whith the solenoid . I really should have mentioned this earlier I heated the ignition coiler once with a blow dryer on a cold day and the non stop cranking still occurred . I feel its the starter or starter solenoid outside on the engine is the problem but we will see . I guess I should ask this question if you guys know can the solenoid be removed with the starter left in place ?

[AVIANO84]

sorry I meant I heated up the ignition switch, not the ignition coil .

[RRoller123]

The solenoid is usually integral to the starter and the starter itself probably has to be replaced, or removed and serviced.

[AVIANO84]

OK thanks for your help RROLLER123 , will troubleshoot this coming weekend once I confirm its the starter I will share the info .

[DieselSpider]

It can be pretty tricky to get the linkage to the starter drive installed correctly with the starter in place. Your best off removing the starter and cleaning it up when you replace the solenoid. Good time to inspect/change the brushes and clean the commutator while your at it. Should really clean and grease (not with conductive grease such as lithium or graphite) all that requires it at the same time.

[AVIANO84]

ok all , it is the starter solenoid, ignition switch tested correctly removed wire at solenoid and power went off when I turned the key to off . Had my daughter crank the engine with me over by the engine once it started to crank non stop I hit the solenoid with a hammer and crow bar and stopped . Thanks all for your help will consider removing the starter in the spring when it gets warmer in the north east .