1st gear ok, 2nd grinds/pops, 3rd grinds - Fluid? Synrchos?

[hank]

My 81s manual tranny is acting up after a long hiatus: 1st gear seems fine. 2nd grinds, resists, and is hard to keep in gear. I can keep it in 2nd by applying moderate pressure to the shifter but will pop out immediately if released. 3rd grinds as I slip into gear but will hold fine. Haven't ventured into 4th yet.

My hope is that the tranny oil is either low, old, or the wrong type. Any thoughts?

Thank you fiatspider-ites!

[rlux4]

It sounds like you're looking at a rebuild or replacement. Once your shifter forks are bent they don't push the gears all the way and then it will pop out of gear, the longer this goes on the worse it gets as the gear's leading edges get worn down. The next thing you can look forward to is for the 2nd gear spring to break and then you won't be able to shift at all. 2nd and 4th seem to be the most common to this problem because the shifter is in such a convenient position to be used as a rest for the hand, putting pressure on the fork. And yeah, it's probably worn synchros too. A tranny rebuild will be in the neighborhood of $1200 most of the time if you're not up to doing it yourself. Parts to do it completely would be about $800 I'm told.
Ron

[vandor]

If it grinds than it's a bad synchro ring. If it pops out then it's a worn shift fork, gear, or slider - or a combination of the 3.
No way to tell except to take it apart and look.
Usually the synchro goes bad, people keep grinding the gear, and that wears off the teeth on the gear and the sleeve, making it pop out of gear. To minimize the damage you should double clutch and match rpm as best as you can.

[hank]

Thanks guys. Sounds like bad news one way or another. Even $800 isn't happening right now so may take things apart and poke around. Ive heard sychro rings aren't super expensive if I can manage the work myself. As a last ditch thought... I was asking about the oil because I read that the wrong oil can actually mess with the synchros, basically over lubricating them so they loose friction. Wishful thinging?

[rlux4]

GL1 is recommended for the tranny because the synchros are brass. Some of the additives in the other designations will attack the brass. To be simplistic, the higher the GL rating the more additives.
Other lubes are used by some with good success, Valvoline racing oil comes to mind. This topic has probably been discussed more than any other, there's lots of info on it by doing a search of tranny lube.
Ron

[So Cal Mark]

rarely will worn synchros be the only issue. The sliders and forks wear and have to be replaced in most repairs

[vandor]

> Even $800 isn't happening right now

Well, that is if you replace everything. Likely your bearings are useable, and all you need is a shiftfork or two, 2 sleeves, synchros, their springs, and maybe some gears. So you may get by with $3-400.

[rlux4]

You're right Csaba, I should have said that would be for a complete rebuild. Doing a teardown would show the parts that need replacement and then your estimate is probably in the ballpark. There are rebuld manuals on the tranny available, here's a source if it helps (about 3/4 down the page)
http://www.spidermanuals.com/
Ron

[hank]

OK that is much more palatable. Never done a tranny tear down before but have had almost the entire rest of The car apart and in zip loc bags. Think its worth a try without any special tools on hand?
Thanks again...
You guys are amazing!

Hank.

[So Cal Mark]

you're going to need a small puller and some snap ring pliers at the very minimum

[vandor]

The rear nut is 32mm, and some sockets are too shallow to get it. I have a deep 32 for it, I had to buy it off a tool truck.
I can usually get the rear 'pad' (behind the snapring) off without a puller, I use 2 large screwdrivers, or 2 small prybars.
If you have a repair manual and decent mechanical ability you should be able to do it.

[BEEK]

an old battery terminal puller will work too, This is what i use

[baltobernie]

Hey BEEK,

What in the world is the tool on the left edge of the workbench?

[hank]

That place looks like its seen lot of fun!

[Exit98]

Bernie,

My guess is its a sheetmetal bending thing. Maybe to make a lip?