Help...one last try

[Divers]

Ok....I have posted before about my 81 FI NOT starting. I want to list what I have done so someone can maybe help me think outside the box as to what I am missing. As a note please remember this is a complete rebuild. I tried to accomplish everything that people told me.

Gas pressure tested with gauge at 80psi....gauge installed at end of removed gas inlet line. Fuel pump and main line brandnew.

Noid light installed on cold start...good
Noid light on injector 1 comes on and flickers
Pulled plug and checked for spark on plug 1
Dual relay replaced
All sensors checked via troubleshooting manual
Timing checked by myself and BEEK
Fuses all checked
No air leaks in the system...all hoses new
All grounds checked and cleaned
Have Marks dizzy installed...little red LED flashes while cranking.

This weekend I am going to give this one last try so any ideas? Current status is that it will crank, but not start. Rarely, I get a little pop out the exhaust and also rarely I get a small "ignition".

[adrians]

Recheck the wires going to the ign coil and heat sink, ensure all the wire are correct, recheck the colours against a known working configuration.

[bradartigue]

80 psi? I believe that the range of input pressure on L-Jetronic 2.2 - 2.6 Bar, or 32-38psi? 80psi is more in the range of K-Jetronic. If I am not mistaken, at 80psi the injectors will not open due to too much pressure being exerted on them, kind of like penny locking a door. Even the fuel return line tests on L-Jetronic, where the return line is pinched to test system pressure, end up at 60 psi at most.

Are you sure you have an L-Jetronic and not CSI/K-Jetronic pump? They look identical.

[Divers]

Brad,

This is new...How to check? I bought the fuel pump from autozone that has been talked about on this forum. I am going to hook the fuel pressure gauge in line versus dead head and check pressure. I will do this tonight.

Robert

[divace73]

when did it stop working? And was it after something was changed?

[Divers]

Fuel pump is model e2182.

Never has run after rebuild and gutting of the car.

[bradartigue]

Brad,

This is new...How to check? I bought the fuel pump from autozone that has been talked about on this forum. I am going to hook the fuel pressure gauge in line versus dead head and check pressure. I will do this tonight.

Robert

E2182 is a 3.5-6.9 bar - 50-80 psi pump. L-Jetronic is a designed for ranges of half of that. Allow me to quote the Bosch manual for L-Jetronic: For the fuel pump "...under approx. 2.5 bar pressure through a filter into the distributor pipe..." which means that system pressure - pure pump pressure, is around 2.5 bar or 36 psi. A pressure regulator then "...maintains fuel pressure at 2.5 or 3 bar according to the individual system."

However, I will state that it may work, even at double the pressure. I'm suggesting that one key part of the system, the fuel pump, is the wrong type and is outputting fuel at the wrong pressure. You can confirm this by:

Removing a plug to see if it is wet after cranking w/o starting
Removing an injector and seeing if it sprays

I'm going to harp on something here for you guys - buy the Bosch fuel pumps. 0 580 464 019 is the part number. Every single one of the FIAT vendors sell this pump. There were probably 5 million cars made with a near identical L-Jetronic system, including Porsches, VWs, Audis, Mercedes, Saab, Peugeot, FIAT, Alfa Romeo, Lancia, SEAT, and on and on and on. If you search the forums for these cars you'll get the same message from enthusiasts: USE THE BOSCH PARTS. They last forever - decades of daily use. And another point - Auto Zone is good for oil and carbureted cleaner and that's about it.

By the book, Bosch says that if your pressure is too high then your regulator is bad or your fuel return line is blocked. In your case, I would say high pressure is due to the pump. I'm concerned that doing the fuel return line test will create almost 3x pressure in your system - the normal test is to block that line off and pressure will increase to around 38psi. In your case if you block that line you'll create at least 100 psi. Unless you upgraded all of the fuel line to newer (lined) type FI hose, you shouldn't be playing around at 100psi.

I'd junk that pump first, put in the right pump. And sadly it may not rectify the problem, but at least you will have the system operating at the correct pressure, safely, and can properly diagnose it. At the very least get a cheap aftermarket pump that produces the correct pressure.

Edit: I found a post I put on Mirafiori in 2002 regarding the E2182LLT pump. At the time that "LLT" was in the part number, and it is not now. Auto Zone still shows E2182 as working, but if you read the specs they are way, way off for L-Jetronic. I cannot confirm if "LLT" was a different pump, but 10 years ago you may have been able to get a lower pressure model.

Another Edit: If your system pressure / "dead head" is 80psi and your inline pressure is the same then you have blockage in the return line or the pressure regulator is faulty.

And another edit: Your timed to the #4 plug, right? I'm sure that's been covered...

[Divers]

Thanks Brad....you wrote a mouthful. I am going to replace all the return fuel line just for S&G's. I already replaced the main input line with high pressure fuel injector line so might as well replace the return line and get rid of that potential. I understand about the pump...will have to keep that in mind. My concern after reading your post is that my return steel lines may be partially clogged (like my inlet steel line was). This back pressure may be putting the injectors "over the edge".

As far as timing, the car is timed using Mark's dizzy (waste spark) so my understanding is #1 or #4 does not matter?

Robert

[maytag]

Divers, real sorry for how tough and frustrating this has been for ya. hang in there.

I think Brad might be onto something with that fuel pump. But I definitely like his idea of how to check: pull a plug after you've been cranking with no-start. If it's wet, your injector is opening. if it's not, then you've found which direction to chase.

And yes, According to Mark and the manual, the ignition system sold by Mark fires on EACH stroke, not every other, so it should not matter whether you time to #1 or #4. But good practice would always be #4.

[Divers]

Actually, this is the most hope I have had in weeks. Need to get this damn thing running. Really with all the work I have put into this car it LOOKS fantastic!

Going to replace the fuel return line tonight getting rid of all the steel line and putting fuel injector line in like I did for the main input line. Nice and clean with the least fittings.

[bradartigue]

Actually, this is the most hope I have had in weeks. Need to get this damn thing running. Really with all the work I have put into this car it LOOKS fantastic!

Going to replace the fuel return line tonight getting rid of all the steel line and putting fuel injector line in like I did for the main input line. Nice and clean with the least fittings.

Ok. Not sure about Mark's distributor, not even sure what that is. A stock FIAT distributor, points, electronic, block, or cam mount, times to #4 at TDC with the cams aligned.

[So Cal Mark]

my ign doesn't care about 1 or 4, waste spark fires both cylinders so just set it up on 12btdc. You can't accurately measure fuel pressure by dead heading the pump, it has to be tee'd into the line. Are the spark plugs wet?

[Divers]

Mark,

I was only testing the pump not the system. I don't "believe" the plugs are wet. I should have checked this but made an assumption. Like stated above I will replace the line tonight and give it a try. IF it starts, great, if not I will pull a plug and check. Also, if it does not start I will put a pressure gauge inline (which I should have done earlier).

Robert

[majicwrench]

Why are changing the line?? You are guessing and assuming and that is your problem. Change the line if it is plugged. Quit guessing. Test.
Without diggin back thru old posts on this, didn't BEEK get it running??
As has been mentioned if you are dead heading the pump it will show way high. The regulator may, or may not, be able to deal with that much pressure. But the ## that really matters is to "T" into the pressure side of things and see if it is reasonable----38lbs etc.
Keith

[Divers]

Keith -

I have tested just about every Fing thing ANYONE has suggested on this forum. I have voltage and ohm readings on every step of troubleshooting for the 3 manuals that I have + Brad's manual. Brad is the first person to mention that 80psi is too high in all of my posts (and I am very appreciative). At this point I "probably" have more documented quantitative data then most will ever have (or need) on there cars. My oversight was a lack of background with over pressurizing the fuel injectors themselves....IF it turns out to be an issue. If you have ANY other ideas to measure something that I have not done, please post or PM me.

The line is 30+ years old (original steel line). That should (IS) enough reason to change it.