probable valve issues

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FordPrefect
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 1:16 pm
Your car is a: 1977 Fiat Spider 124

probable valve issues

Post by FordPrefect »

I'm starting to put together the pieces of this puzzle.

Car had leaky cambox, and was making a bit of a clicky sound which I assumed was a valve, but the valve clearances appeared to be within tolerance. The sound disappeared often and I thought maybe it was the exhaust manifold, put it on my to-do list eventually.

I changed the cambox gasket along with the timing belt (necessitating moving the alternator). Everything was great drove around without issue, next day car didn't want to run, it would start, then die. So I cleaned up various connections until the car works great again, but the charging lights don't go on when I turn the key, so I navigate the mysterious world of dirty grounds, brittle fuses, etc, sort of suspect alternator since it was the only thing moved, but it tests ok, and things magically work now.

Only problem is that the car now seems to miss regularly. The car shakes, has terrible power, and sounds bad. If I stomp on the gas sometimes it blows back into the carb. Remembered the new gasket probably changed valve clearance, checked, and the clearance is pretty far off. Compression test indicated #4 was slightly higher than the rest.

So. I figure I'll have to go about getting the valves back into tolerance, and my questions are:

1. Is this possibly all related to the valve clearance being way off?
2. Would a weak spark contribute much, maybe gunk/carbon buildup is interfering with a valve?
3. I'm just an amateur, could I go further to diagnose or fix a sticking/bent valve/guide on my own or just turn it over to a pro?
4. is anyone willing to part with a valve adjusting tool or have a good alternative?
lm48
Posts: 110
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:56 am
Your car is a: 1979 and 1980 spider
Location: Fort Myers

Re: probable valve issues

Post by lm48 »

If the timing is good, a variation on shims size will not create the problem what you have special when engine is cold. All the gaps are design to compensate for expansion when engine is getting hot. If you run the engine with the small valve gap you will burn the valves or the valves seat. You need to start making sure that all the wheels marks are in correct place in the same time. One cylinder with a just slightly higher pressure should not be the one creating the headache.
FordPrefect
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 1:16 pm
Your car is a: 1977 Fiat Spider 124

Re: probable valve issues

Post by FordPrefect »

As an update:

Exhaust manifold was loose, it sounds much, much better now after tightening it down. I've gone through and replaced the fuel filter, and most of the ignition system (points, cond. rotor, cap, etc), set timing and idle, everything seems great, (still need to adjust valve lash) but it really seems to lack power for some reason, and run a tad lumpy.

Sometimes the battery (which I replaced in March) gets too low to start the car, so I suspect it could be a low voltage problem, though it seems to test fine. I do have problems starting the car with the timing light attached to the #4 cylinder and have to test it with the inductor on #1.
So Cal Mark

Re: probable valve issues

Post by So Cal Mark »

you can set ignition timing from either 1 or 4, it doesn't matter. Many problems are related to low voltage, so I'd get that problem sorted out first.
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124JOE
Posts: 3141
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:11 pm
Your car is a: 1978 124 fiat spider sport 1800
Location: SO. WI

Re: probable valve issues

Post by 124JOE »

yes check the ground strap to the tranny
and the ground on the battery

a striped out bolt or nut might be hidding on you
when you do everything correct people arent sure youve done anything at all (futurama)
ul1joe@yahoo.com 124joe@gmail.com
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opus10583
Posts: 861
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 7:13 am
Your car is a: 1978 CS1
Location: Westchester County, NY

Re: probable valve issues

Post by opus10583 »

So Cal Mark wrote:you can set ignition timing from either 1 or 4, it doesn't matter.
Hi Mark,

Can you explain this to me?

Thanks,
Mark
...Yes; I know what it means: Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino.

DOLCETTO: 1978 CS1; 10:1, DMS, 4-2-1...
ANDIAMMO: 2012 500 ABARTH

Acquista il Biglietto; Prendere la Gita! - Hunter S. Thompson
BEEK
Posts: 1833
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:45 pm
Your car is a: 1975 Spider
Location: clermont fl

Re: probable valve issues

Post by BEEK »

1 and 4 are at the same point on crankshaft rotation as far as the timing light see's, if you set your timing on the camshaft, then you would only set on 4, as tdc on 4 only occurs once every 2 revolutions of the crankshaft.
Automotive Service Technology Instructor (34 year Fiat mechanic)
75 spider
, 6 Lancia Scorpions, 2018 Abarth Spider, 500X wifes, 500L 3 82 Zagatos. 82 spider 34k original miles, 83 pininfarina, 8 fiat spider parts cars
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124JOE
Posts: 3141
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:11 pm
Your car is a: 1978 124 fiat spider sport 1800
Location: SO. WI

Re: probable valve issues

Post by 124JOE »

when i set the marks the #4 cylinder is ready to fire for the cams
so i set my dizzy "dis"to #4 then use the light to get it set
when you do everything correct people arent sure youve done anything at all (futurama)
ul1joe@yahoo.com 124joe@gmail.com
FordPrefect
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 1:16 pm
Your car is a: 1977 Fiat Spider 124

Re: probable valve issues

Post by FordPrefect »

I really suspect low voltage now, I've cleaned my grounds, and even added a second fresh ground. The sparks seem weak, but I'm not sure how to judge spark really. It's just a tiny orange-yellow spark.

Each cylinder has a spark, gas pumps into the carb ok, and I after I replaced one of the inline fuses, it ran for a minute, then died, and now won't start. The starter turns, but the engine never catches.
baltobernie
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Posts: 3466
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:00 pm
Your car is a: 1973 Spider [sold]
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: probable valve issues

Post by baltobernie »

These inexpensive gadgets work just fine:
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Catal ... 0006398590
You turn a dial increasing the gap until the spark won't jump any more, then read the voltage scale. Grounded, so you don't get an afro while testing. Not nearly as good as a Sun machine, but no garages have these anymore.
FordPrefect
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 1:16 pm
Your car is a: 1977 Fiat Spider 124

Re: probable valve issues

Post by FordPrefect »

What voltage should I be looking for?
So Cal Mark

Re: probable valve issues

Post by So Cal Mark »

a points-type system with a stock coil will only put out 10-12k volts, the electronic units might hit 20k on a good day. Just hook a spark plug up to the wire and make sure the body is grounded. Crank the motor and see if the spark jumps the electrode
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124JOE
Posts: 3141
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:11 pm
Your car is a: 1978 124 fiat spider sport 1800
Location: SO. WI

Re: probable valve issues

Post by 124JOE »

i have a crain camc ELE ING
it gives me a strong white spark
when you do everything correct people arent sure youve done anything at all (futurama)
ul1joe@yahoo.com 124joe@gmail.com
FordPrefect
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 1:16 pm
Your car is a: 1977 Fiat Spider 124

Re: probable valve issues

Post by FordPrefect »

All the plugs have spark.

I'm running out of ideas really. It seems to have enough power to spark, and enough gas to burn, but doesn't want to run. I'm not sure how much fuel the pump should put out, but I can see it squirting down the carb. I can see sparks on each plug, so I stymied.
So Cal Mark

Re: probable valve issues

Post by So Cal Mark »

if those compression numbers are right, the engine just isn't making enough compression to run. Did you verify the cam timing?
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