Play in steering...how do I fix it?

[Fiat88]

I have noticed that I have a lot of play in my steering and so did my mechanic. I don't know too much about suspension or steering but what parts are causing this problem and what's the proper way to fix it? Thanks.

[SLOSpider]

You want to start with a helper and have them move the steering wheel back and forth a few inches slowly while you look to see where that play is coming from. It could be all your tie rods and center link is worn, worn idler arm or sloppy gear box. If its just the gear box you can adjust it a bit on the top of it there will be a nut and screw. Otherwise you just need to replace the worn parts for new.

[DUCeditor]

My mechanic/euro car restoration expert told me of another possible cause of excess play: He says sometimes he finds cars that earlier in their history had the tie rods replaced and the adjustment was done so that the steering box is no longer actually centered. Apparently play increases away from center.

If that is the case the system will have be re-setup and, I suppose, realigned.

-don

[kmead]

This is easiest if you put the front end on jack stands. Get a helper. Wear some thin rubber gloves as it will be dirty. I would buy a Haynes, Fiat and the Clymer manuals, they detail the actual procedures and it sounds like your mechanic needs a primer on how to maintain a car without rack and pinion steering.

Start with the outermost joints. Start with the wheels pointing straight ahead. Wrap your thumb and index finger around the rubber boot (compressing the boot so you can feel the steel parts inside) of the center link at the arm off of the steering box. Have your assistant wiggle the steering wheel back and forth. If you can feel relative movement between the two parts (not rotary motion, movement left to right before the center link moves) the center link is bad.

Repeat this with the inner tie rod end at the steering box. In addition to checking the inner tie rod end at dead center also perform the same check with the steering wheel turned all the way to the right.

Do the same for the left tie rod end at the wheel. Do the same for the parts on the right side of the car only have the steering wheel turned all the way to the left.

On the pitman arm on the right, see if it has any motion up/down or a grating sound as the bearings may be worn. If so it should be replaced. Go through the tie rods ends on the right checking each one.

Go back to the steering box area on the left side of the car. Holding the arm from the steering box have your assistant wiggle the steering wheel. Is there motion of the wheel before the arm starts to move? If so the steering box may need to be adjusted. To find out you also need to look at the universal joints in the steering column. Again you are looking for play/lost motion at each joint.

If you don't have lost motion in the steering column joints, the steering box can be adjusted, follow the procedure in the manual, don't just tighten the steering box until it is "tight" as you can damage it and they are expensive to replace and somewhat difficult to find.

You should also check the upper and lower ball joints (the manuals have a good detailing of the procedure) as well as the rubber bushings holding the a arms. Don't forget to check your front wheel bearings as well.

If it was me, I would replace all of the tie rod end joints, center link and likely all of the other bushings and joints in the front suspension. The tie rods ends and center link would be pretty easy for you to do. Some of the other items (the ball joints and rubber bushings in the A arms) are more for a mechanic to replace, you could certainly do them as well but it does require quite a bit of expertise/tools.

Perhaps if you live near several other Fiat gluttons for punishment you could get a garage day together and work with them to go through and replace the various worn parts. With a team of people you should be able to replace every part in an day, save the beer for the end of the day.

[kmead]

My mechanic/euro car restoration expert told me of another possible cause of excess play: He says sometimes he finds cars that earlier in their history had the tie rods replaced and the adjustment was done so that the steering box is no longer actually centered. Apparently play increases away from center.

Although the adjustment could easily be done this way, there isn't much difference in the play in the steering box across its range of motion (there may be some but it would be pretty slight). I would expect more play around the center as its more likely that the steering arm will be "jacked" up or down against the bearing or the adjustable stop and the worm gear up against the bearings which would tend to minimize play at the extremes of travel.

[Fiat88]

This is easiest if you put the front end on jack stands. Get a helper. Wear some thin rubber gloves as it will be dirty. I would buy a Haynes, Fiat and the Clymer manuals, they detail the actual procedures and it sounds like your mechanic needs a primer on how to maintain a car without rack and pinion steering.

Start with the outermost joints. Start with the wheels pointing straight ahead. Wrap your thumb and index finger around the rubber boot (compressing the boot so you can feel the steel parts inside) of the center link at the arm off of the steering box. Have your assistant wiggle the steering wheel back and forth. If you can feel relative movement between the two parts (not rotary motion, movement left to right before the center link moves) the center link is bad.

Repeat this with the inner tie rod end at the steering box. In addition to checking the inner tie rod end at dead center also perform the same check with the steering wheel turned all the way to the right.

Do the same for the left tie rod end at the wheel. Do the same for the parts on the right side of the car only have the steering wheel turned all the way to the left.

On the pitman arm on the right, see if it has any motion up/down or a grating sound as the bearings may be worn. If so it should be replaced. Go through the tie rods ends on the right checking each one.

Go back to the steering box area on the left side of the car. Holding the arm from the steering box have your assistant wiggle the steering wheel. Is there motion of the wheel before the arm starts to move? If so the steering box may need to be adjusted. To find out you also need to look at the universal joints in the steering column. Again you are looking for play/lost motion at each joint.

If you don't have lost motion in the steering column joints, the steering box can be adjusted, follow the procedure in the manual, don't just tighten the steering box until it is "tight" as you can damage it and they are expensive to replace and somewhat difficult to find.

You should also check the upper and lower ball joints (the manuals have a good detailing of the procedure) as well as the rubber bushings holding the a arms. Don't forget to check your front wheel bearings as well.

If it was me, I would replace all of the tie rod end joints, center link and likely all of the other bushings and joints in the front suspension. The tie rods ends and center link would be pretty easy for you to do. Some of the other items (the ball joints and rubber bushings in the A arms) are more for a mechanic to replace, you could certainly do them as well but it does require quite a bit of expertise/tools.

Perhaps if you live near several other Fiat gluttons for punishment you could get a garage day together and work with them to go through and replace the various worn parts. With a team of people you should be able to replace every part in an day, save the beer for the end of the day.

Appreciate the write up Kmead!

[manoa matt]

Before you go and adjust the steering box, take the cap and valve plate off the idler and check if there is oil in there. Without oil in the idler/dampener you will have play. You MUST remove the valve plate to fill it correctly.

[DUCeditor]

Can someone explain what the idler does? Does it function as a damper? Or???

Thanks!
-don

[majicwrench]

I would NOT just change everything as was described earlier, why change a bunch of good parts?? If yoiu check them, and they are bad, then replace them. If they are good, leave them.

Matt, intereested in you reply. My idler I just pull the little bolt out of the top to fill it. Should I be doing it differently??
Keith

[manoa matt]

Yes, the oil filled idlers also function as a dampener via the oil and a valve plate. In order to fill it completely and properly you must remove the three allen head screws, remove the stamped steel top plate, then twist off the intermediate valve plate. Once you get the valve plate off you will see the main cavity and the idler vanes. As the idler moves back and forth oil gets compressed in the cavities and moves up and down through the valve plate. The valve plate lets the oil pass back and forth from cavity to cavity at a slower metered rate. Completely fill the cavities, twist back on the valve plate, put the stamped steel cover back, tighten the three screws, then remove the center fill bolt and fill the remainder to the brim and re-insert the fill bolt. If you only fill the small area above the valve plate the oil will never make its way into the main cavities and no dampening action will result.

[kmead]

I would NOT just change everything as was described earlier, why change a bunch of good parts?? If yoiu check them, and they are bad, then replace them. If they are good, leave them.
Snip

I don't think anyone suggested just replacing a bunch of good parts. I wrote out all of that procedure so he could determine what does need to be replaced.

I said I would replace most of the parts because I like to know where I am at on everything on a car I haven't been maintaining right along. When I buy a used car I replace all fluids, hoses, belts. plugs, dist cap, rotor, brake rotors, pads and other items that degrade or can leave me stranded. I find it much easier to maintain a car rather than chase problems around the car. But thats just me, other people have their own valid approaches.

[majicwrench]

Matt,
Interesting approach to the idler. The manuals I have just mention removing fill plug and filling. I will add, when I first filled mine, it took a LOoooooooong time, a little bit of fluid at a time. And it seems to work fine, steering is tight and wonderful. Not sure if I want to be removing the cap and valve plate.
Good info, thanks!
Keith

[narfire]

The 80 recently purchased has slop in the steering,about 1-11/2 inch either side of center while wheel is straight. Going to take a look this weekend after reading this thred.(all suspension had been replaced recently)
Thanks guys

[manoa matt]

This will be the third and last time.

"You MUST remove the valve plate to fill it correctly."

"If you only fill the small area above the valve plate the oil will never make its way into the main cavities and no dampening action will result."

[majicwrench]

Matt,
Thanks again for the info. That will make a fun experiment...next time I get an idler on my bench I will drain it, and see if I can fill if thru the fill hole.
Looking thru my manuals, they all say to fill thru fill hole, one specificly says not to take idler apart as there are no servicable items inside.
But like I said, I will check it out someday! Thanks again.
Keith