spitting at me through the carb...

[lamborghinikid]

Ok I am about to throw in the towel, I don't know if I have a timming problem or a carb problem? The car doesn't want to idle and once I get it running at a higher rpm it it spits back through the carb. Also the 4 timming points on the car are suppose to be the cams, the crank shaft, the distribuitor, and the auxuarly shaft, why does the the auxuarly shaft that operates the fuel pump and oil pump need to be lined up with the bolt. or even timed it has nothing to do with the timming of the engine,. Does anyone have a check list on engine timming and how to get the radiator filled the correct way? thanks Dwight

[majicwrench]

Dwight,
I think I would just throw in the towel. Let me know where you live and I will come take your troubles off your hands

Any good manual will have a good pic of timing marks, and getting all those set is a good start. After that if it will not idle carb is next place to look.
What year is it??

[lamborghinikid]

Kind of funny thats how I got the car the guy who owned it couldn't get the crank shaft nut off so I picked it up for $600 I've had 6 or 7 fiats in the past 35 years and this one is by far the best it has no rust anywhere. It is a 79 I pulled the short block and tranny that was left in the car, it was an automatic with a carb I installed a (tempo) engine from a 80 Fi of which I installed a 78 intake and carb also removed the auto and installed a 5 speed. When I picked up the car the guy had the engine parts he removed boxed up and a new rebuild kit rotors new brakes over $1200 worth of new parts,. that truely was a good find.. Any way I would love to find a good pic of the carb and where all the lines to it go. I also find it really difficult to bleed the radiator and get the water flowing through this thing.. I know pics are nice to have I'll get pics on soon. I would like to make this a daily driver until I rebuild the old engine of 52000 miles to the max I hope. If it wasn't for work and fishing I'd live in the garage. Anyway any advise on the radiator system or the timing and carb I'd really appreciate it thanks

[majicwrench]

This will be cool, we can fish all day and work on Fiats at night!! Just send airfare to:

Keith Meyers
The Magic Wrench
Libby MT 59923

[TulsaSpider]

search for "burping the system" you'll find the instructions. Sounds like timing issue to me. Start there and eliminate things one by one. The aux cam needs to be aligned because if it is not properly aligned it will strike a rod and bye bye motor.
Good luck

[mdrburchette]

Dwight, the reason the aux shaft timing is important is not for engine performance but to guarantee the aux shaft lobe for the fuel pump won't come in contact with a rod bolt and cause internal engine damage.
Have you had the timing belt off? It's very easy to get one tooth off on the camshaft pullies. Make sure they are lined up correctly or you'll have low power. Do you have the vacuum advance hooked up? When timing the engine, it's best to have the vacuum advance disconnected. Also, a vacuum leak will cause backfiring through the carb, so capping off the vacuum port on the intake and test driving it may help determine if it's a problem with the vacuum advance.
As for burping the cooling system, many people add a flush tee to the heater hose. I just jack the front end up high enough to get the radiator higher than the head, then run the car with the radiator cap off, and squeeze the hoses until no more bubbles come up from the radiator. Make sure the fan cycles on and off and your good to go.
Hope this helps a little.

[lamborghinikid]

Man you guys are the real deal (gear heads for sure) thanks for the info does the aux shaft dot suppose to line up with the bolt on the spring tensioner? The water deal with jacking the front up is a great Idea and makes sense because there shouldnt be any air trapped thanks. I'm going to work with the timing all day tomorrow I'll try it with dist. advance disconnected I had it hooked to the intake manifold before I doubt if that is correct. has anyone drawn a picture of the vacuum line hook up on here yet? I have 3 little teeth on the crank that the harmonic balancer I lined up the first one am I right? then I made sure the distributor was firing the #4 cylinder and of course the cams are as close to the dots and pointers as I can get them. I now have confidence this beast will run.. Most likely a lot sooner that the prova countach I've been tinkering with for the last 7 years.. This Fiat I've had less than a month better odds with the Fiat, Well at least I try to keep it Italian.

[So Cal Mark]

if the car has been sitting for a long while, the carb probably needs a new accelerator pump diaphragm. A bad accel pump will cause it to backfire up through the carb if you blip the throttle

[lamborghinikid]

I put a new one on it because the old one was leaking it seem to make it run a little better, I'm going to try and figure it out today. Any other input is greatly appreciated.. I have a 77 124 sitting in front of the garage my son and I are going to put together and paint, he opens the door and ask whats that smell ( that was classic ) I said it is fiat, kind of like a 69 Camaro has its own distinct smell. I don't know if I convinced him but I think it will grow on him.

[TulsaSpider]

also one thing to check is if the vacuum advance diaphragm. draw in on the hose that is attached to the advance cannister. if you can breathe through it the diaphragm is bad and you have a vacuum leak. have you checked to see if the carb bolts are tight?

[lamborghinikid]

I am not sure where that goes on the carb I thought I had this thing figured out today and no its like a first date with a lesbian, I didn't get far. I have tried the 1st mark on the crank the 2nd and 3rd, The little bumps behind the cam wheels help alot those are eaiser to make sure it is dead on. It still is praying a light mist of gas back through the carb and not really wanting to run if I open it up wide open it really boggs down, Ive capped off most of the vacuums since I didn't know where they went. And hell I live in Northern Kentucky I would like to get rid of the emissions all together. I've tried 3 different carbs and I made sure the accelerator pump diaphragm was replaced with a new one. I'm almost positive the timing is right since I've tried all 3 points on the crank. I had it running for a while I lined everything up and the crank on the largest pointer the dist on the 4th plug wire terminal and it started put the timing light on and the crank mark was leading the point that I timed it to before starting the engine idling at about 1200 I moved the dist until the timing mark was on the biggest of the pointers and the idle went to about 900 let it sit there gave it a little gas and it spits gas back through the carb like a light mist and sputters drops of gas on the fender. I am going to dig in and do alot of reading on the forum tonight may be I will find something out about this carb I do know its a 32 adf. I can see dual carbs in the future.. I heard of a guy putting a holly carb on a 124 has anyone seen or heard of this? Thanks for the really good suggestions, Thanks Dwight

[So Cal Mark]

I doubt the carb is your problem. Are you sure the cam pulleys are on the right cams and not reversed? Have you put a vacuum gauge on the manifold? Put the ignition timing on 10 btdc and leave it. The long pointer is 0, the 3 pointer is 10

[lamborghinikid]

I'll go with the 3rd Are you saying may be I've got the exhaust and intake cams mixed up? I didn't mess with them this engine was FI before I out it in this car I thought it ran but anything is possible> I'm going to try the 3rd arrow I did that before and it seemed to want to run with the timing light on it it was about an inch in front of the mark when it started up then I tuned the dist until it was at the 3rd one and it didn't want to run at all. I'm off today I'm going to mess with it again I think I'm going to throw the Hayes manual away its really bad. It only goes up to 78 may be I need a new one. Thanks for the help

[lamborghinikid]

I just took compression I'm getting about 98 on the gauge 1st and 2nd piston I didn't go any further I also noticed the the plugs were black to where it looks like they were running really rich I'm going to dig in here and find out what the compression should be. I've tried everything with the timing is it possible the belt is off as in may be not machined correctly

[lamborghinikid]

I finally got 120 on compression about 1inch below the timing mark, got it all together it idles good at about 800 rpm it really doesn't respond well giving it gas untill it warms up. but at 800 rpm the timing mark sits right on the first small arrow. I have noticed that after you run it and it cools the primary butterfly doesn't close enough for it to start without giving it a little gas. I have not had it on the road yet. Tomorrow for sure. Really thanks for the help I think this fall or early spring I would like to put the original engine back in it. It would be nice to get the dual carbs the header from Mark and electronic ignition. I had a brilliant idea of putting side pipes on it. I did fab up a gear shifter for it 7/16 stainless rod threaded and welded to the shifter I cut off I;'m going to put the 250 dash in it with a Ferrari gate shifter I think that will make it look nice I never did like the boot thing anyway. I'll get some pics tomorrow Again thanks for the help.