79-2000- constant clicking

[narfire]

I remember from my first fiat trying to drop the oil pan... Nope.... the oil pump and baffles don't allow that. Drop the cross member after blocking up the engine or what I did when I was 18 was to cut a 13mm in half and blindly un-do th bolts holding the oil pump.

[SLOSpider]

I have got my oil pans off without dropping the crossmember with removing motor mounts and jacking up the engine.

I would start with the Alignment issued though. It sounds that the aux shaft may be hitting. Get it as close as you can and check the aux shaft mark in reference to the bolt of the tensioner mount. If it no where close then I would remove the belt and then try and turn the aux pulley to the proper mark and then place the crank and cams in there marks. Try this before the extra work of dropping the pan.

[minimike]

Possibly the last and most important piece of the puzzle.
The # 3 plug when I took it out has it's bottom electrode crushed and touching the center electrode. I had installed and gapped that set of plugs days before! I believe it's a spun bearing on #3, letting the piston travel too high on some revolutions.
Opening the pan, removing the bearing caps/ bearings would be the next logical step to me.

Anyone have a ballpark cost of turning a crankshaft, oversize bearings, resizing the rods?

[wachuko]

I have got my oil pans off without dropping the crossmember with removing motor mounts and jacking up the engine.

I would start with the Alignment issued though. It sounds that the aux shaft may be hitting. Get it as close as you can and check the aux shaft mark in reference to the bolt of the tensioner mount. If it no where close then I would remove the belt and then try and turn the aux pulley to the proper mark and then place the crank and cams in there marks. Try this before the extra work of dropping the pan.

+1

Loosen the engine mounts, raise the tranny with a jack, loosen the crossmember, and that should give you the necessary space to remove the oil pan...

[mbouse]

So I had almost 4' of leverage. the engine would not budge. I went the other way. when I got to TDC or damn close, again, I was unable to move the engine. I'm afraid it is time to yank this lump. I'm thinking something is hanging up in the crank, like a broken rod!

Mike

well, forcing the engine to reverse rotation should cure any and all trouble you thought you might have had. now you got more trouble than you bargained for....unless you are extremely lucky.

ya might wanna try slowing down a tad and taking some of the advice you've been given.

i really doubt there is a broken rod.

[minimike]

I was not forcing the engine, merely rotating it. What might you think happened when I rotated the engine in the reverse direction?

BTW, did you read the bit about he crushed electrode? When I got this car, it had bosch platinum tip plugs and two of the four plugs had the center electrode broken. The broken bits were only kept in the plug by the bottom electrode.

Now I don't think I have a broken rod. I think I've got a spun bearing or two thus letting the pistons rise more than they normally would.

the alignment marks are very close but I can't get them to align. That is where the engine stops turning, just before all alignment is on the marks.
Please give me your advice as I'm not up to par on this situation or these engines.

[SLOSpider]

Ok when the marks are CLOSE where is the indicator on the aux shaft pointed?

Also the plugs maybe the wrong ones and making contact because they are longer than the oe ones, carbon breaking loose in the cylinder walls, detention, or something else going on.

[minimike]

I check the length of the plugs against the donor car that I have. They are not too long.

When the pulleys are as close as I can get them to the alignment marks, the aux pulley is pointed towards the bolt. It doesn't seem to exacting as it's not specified as the center of the bolt, but I assume that's where it should be. since I can't get the pulleys to move to the marks, it's hard to tell if any of the pulley's are off one click on the ribbed belt. All the pulleys APPEAR to be approaching their proper marks.

[SLOSpider]

Are all the plugs out of the head now when you are trying to turn over? If so it sounds like you have some internal damage going on there. You may just want to start with removing the head and inspecting the top side. If your getting into the crank for bearings and its been hitting the electrode then you'll want to have the head checked out anyways. Thats is where I would start by removing the head. You may want to find a good used engine while you go through that one unless you dont mind the down time. Brian

[So Cal Mark]

how was the oil pressure? Is the oil pan dented?

[rlux4]

It does sound like your aux. pulley is correct. But it is acting exactly as it would if the lobe on the aux. shaft were hitting the #2 rod. If the shaft lobe is coming up while the #2 piston is coming down they will meet and stop the engine being turned by hand. There is enough force with the engine running to make it past the obstruction. However, the resultant banging will damage the rod bolt and nut, possibly breaking the aux. shaft or the rod. The exact positioning of the pulley isn't critical, just so long as the lobe is not pointing towards the rod as it comes down, and you have maybe 320° out of 360 that would be safe.
Ron

[minimike]

I"m thinking that I should get a new timing belt, (I've read not to reuse an old belt due to stretching), remove the old belt and time the engine on the marks, install the new belt, and then see if I can rotate the lump by hand. Clockwise only, to prevent the belt from jumping time. If that fails, I do have a spare engine, condition unknown. I'll have to put my coil and dizzy on it, and since there is no key for that car, I'll have to fiddle with the connector below the key switch to locate the proper wires to crank and start the engine. If anyone knows which color wires I should be using, it would be a great help.

BTW, the original engine has about 76K on it. The oil was super clean when I bought the car, as was the coolant. I can try to find the PO's phone # and see if he had recently had a timing belt change, but the belt looks old.

Rlux, What does the aux pulley drive? Wondering specifically, what is on the back side of the shaft.

AND,,,,,, Who has the best price on new Fiat parts, specifically (again) the timing belt and tensioner?

[rlux4]

It drives the oil pump by a gear and if the car has a mechanical fuel pump it drives it by the lobe. If the car has an electric fuel pump a lot of people grind off the lobe and eliminate the possibility of interference.
Ron

[ventura ace]

Mike,
Here's a suggestion. Rotate your engine, as you've been doing (slow and gingerly) until it bumps. Everything should be close to the timing marks at this point, so there's not a risk of valves bumping pistons. Remove the timing belt. Try rotating the aux pulley by hand. It should be free spinning in both directions. If it is locked, or bumps anything, then that is likely the problem. If so, rotate it to where it seems clear of bumping, and put the timing belt back on and try to rotate the engine again (don't rotate the engine all the way around with the timing belt off, or it will bump the cyl 2 and 3 valves, as those valves will be open when the head is on its timing marks. You can rotate the engine ±45° to convince yourself that it is clear, but not all the way around).

If the above test resolves the problem, then study your aux pulley. It may be the wrong pulley. Both the intake and exhaust cam pulleys would fit on the aux shaft, but the correct pulley should be the same as the exhaust pulley, to use the recommended setting for the timing mark.

I'm available by phone if you want to discuss. 805-338-1767

Alvon

[So Cal Mark]

none of the "solutions" explain the crushed spark plug tips. I'd remove all of the spark plugs and measure the height of each piston through the spark plug hole. If indeed the rod bearing has spun, that could explain not only the piston height situation but also move that rod closer to the aux shaft. I wouldn't waste time removing the pan. If you have a bearing problem the crankshaft will have to come out, and that won't happen with the motor in the car