Cat failure stops car from running?

[majicwrench]

Yes fuel inj engines can flood.

[BartusCompater]

Replaced the ign. control module and removed/cleaned injectors and cleared the cylinders in case it had flooded but still no beans. I'm lead to believe that fuel is getting to the cylinders because at least a couple of the spark plugs smelled like fuel (don't know if this is solid reasoning). I guess it's time to break out a spark tester.

P.S. I was looking at the shop manual I have and it says that you should never crank the engine with the thick wire removed from the ignition coil. This is exactly what I did when I had the spark plugs out while clearing the pistons. Could this have damaged or thrown something off?

[lanciahf]

"But I'm wondering if anyone has any good ideas as to what would cause the car to stall and die once RPMs are pushed higher into the 3000s. Does this sound like a fuel or a spark issue?"

My car did the same when the pickup inside the distributor became loose. Ran fine until the higher rpms were reached.

[majicwrench]

As you have come to conclude, you need to test for spark and fuel BEFORE you start changing parts. All you need is an old plug to check for spark. You may want to open the gap up to .060 or so. If it has spark, piss a little fuel into the intake and see if it runs momentarily.
If you pull the secondary wire out of the coil and crank the engine, the spark from the coil will jump to the primary wiring and it can damage the electronics. Realisticly, it will not cause a problem.
Check for spark.

[BartusCompater]

So I took it to a professional and they said that all they could find after keeping it for 3 days was that the ignition switch had some loose connections. I started it up at the shop and drove it home. Hmm.

UPDATE: Washed it and drove it about 6 blocks when it died again. Got it home, gonna investigate the fuel pump.

[BartusCompater]

Electrical connection to the fuel pump was completely unplugged when I checked it. Plugged it back in, sure that I'd solved the problem. Broke down the exact same spot that it had earlier in the day, at a stop light. It seems to die most commonly when I come to a stop.

Spent a few hours in the parking lot fiddling with the fuel pump, starting the car, trying to see what was causing it to die. I don't think that it's the fuel pump because I've noticed that when you unplug the fuel pump while the car is running there is a delay and it slowly chugs to a stop. What's happening when it dies on its own is more akin to turning the key off completely, it stops right away.

So to recap:

1) The ignition switch connections were loose and plugging these back in allowed it to at least fire up and drive for a while before dying again. I've tried playing with the wires and ignition connections while the car is running but no amount of jiggling them around seems to cause the engine to stop.

2) The fuel pump connection was loose and probably was only making intermittent contact (which would account for the car dying). This has been plugged back in but the car still dies after driving and coming to a stop.

3) This all started after it started acting funny on the freeway and died once I pulled over to the side of the road. I was suspicious that the Airflow Meter was sticking, and sanded it down a little bit. It doesn't stick any more, but may have sanded too much (but could a gap in the airflow meter account for dying suddenly?)

[So Cal Mark]

how's the connector on the coolant sensor?

[BartusCompater]

I have given it a lot jiggling but it actually slipped my mind to check that. Now that the car actually starts I'll remember to play around with it tomorrow morning. Another idea that's been thrown at me is to check the crank position sensor, so I'll be doing that tomorrow as well.

Just got the car home from the 7-11 parking lot on the work truck.



Just another day in the life I guess

[majicwrench]

You need to run some real basic, easy tests when it is dead....like does it have spark?? If you don't know you are really gonna be spinning your wheels, which is what you have been doing. When dead, does it have spark?? If it does have spark, piss a little bit of fuel into the intake, now does it start and die?? In less than a minute, you should be able to decide if it is a fuel issue or an ignition issue.

[BartusCompater]

You're absolutely right about that, I should have been able to catch the loose ignition switch connection myself by checking for spark. Would have saved me 80 bucks.

[majicwrench]

Well, sounds to me like car is still doing the same thing, which makes me wonder if ignition sw connection were really a problem. Same with connection to fuel pump, you said it was completely unplugged?????? Then car would not run, period, and it would not be intermittent.
Do some simple tests when car is dead, quit wiggling things for now.

[BartusCompater]

There is a little boot goes over the electrical connectors to the fuel pump. The connector was still making contact from within the boot but it had slid completely off of the tab which it was supposed to be attached to which leads me to believe it was probably only making contact some of the time.

Also, the loose connection at the switch makes sense given that the locksmith and I had been fiddling with it for so long trying to figure out what was wrong with the switch. Before they dealt with the loose connection the car wouldn't even fire up, which it does now.

When I say that the car is "dead" I should be more specific... after the engine dies it will still turn over and fire up (i.e. it is getting fuel and spark at least initially), but will stop running instantly. I can then let it sit for a while and it will usually start back up again and drive perfectly normally until all of a sudden it dies again and refuses to stay running.

[maytag]

Well you've had quite a saga here. I'll admit that I haven't really followed it. But having just read through it, I xan imagine how frustrated you must be.
have you checked the fuel filter?

Beyond that, you would be well served to continue some systematic checks. get the car to the point where it won,t stay running, and then check that you're getting fuel and spark. See which one goes away as the engine dies.

[narfire]

For what it is worth my guess is either the sensor at the coolant "T" or perhaps the thermo time under the intake manifold.
I trust the sensor at the T is facing down, up, the wires can contact the hood liner and the wires get squished and or knock the sensor conection. I believe the wires from the dist are in good shape? The wires from the pick up in the dist do get brittle and can affect the ignition. I've managed to have the wires caught under the dist. cap lip after putting the cap back on.
Sounds like your real close and I believe its a conection or a loose wire somewheres.
Chris

[BartusCompater]

Mark, I think you might be onto something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ypYUq5ri_k

Examining the connector closer it's clear that it needs to be replaced. The plastic on part of the connector itself has been chipped off, the rubber around the wiring is worn away and some of the copper in the wiring is even exposed.

I figure I should probably replace the sensor as well while I'm at it, but after doing some investigation it looks like this might involve more than just wrenching it out and putting a new one in, but also draining/refilling some coolant. Is this true? Or can I get away with just quickly swapping the sensor out before any significant amount of coolant leaks out and then refill it?

EDIT: Also just realized that there is no magnetic "crank position" sensor in the Fiat L-Jetronic systems (according to the IAP article on sensors).