Cat failure stops car from running?

[BartusCompater]

At the point that I started recording here the car had been idling for around 20 minutes with no problem, headlights on and off, cooling fan running etc. I had also been playing with the throttle cable and bringing holding it down at different RPMs. No problems at all until I decided to start driving the car around in my driveway. Finally it quit on me as a came to a stop, and that's when I started recording this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxmRnfTef-k

You can see what I'm doing in the reflection of the tachometer. I sat there for a while playing with the throttle and trying to get the car to quit on me but got nothing. You'll notice when I take the parking break off and put it into gear, start moving, and then stop, is when it finally quits on me.

I noticed that the temp gauge moves around quite a bit. Not sure if that's normal or not, but I recall that when I changed the coolant temp sensor there was no coolant at the T to spill out. Could this have something to do with coolant moving around when the car is in motion or something?

[azruss]

Its odd that it dies as soon as you put it into gear and move. Here is what i would look at. look under the dash at the clutch pedal and make sure it isnt pinching some wire. (long shot). I would replace the double relay. should be able to hear if the fuel pump stops running when it dies. Like you said, it dies quickly, where the fuel pump shut off would make it die slower. Possibility your key is shot and loosing connection when it warms up. only way to test this would be to short across the key on the back and see if that solves the issue. dont envy you having to chase ghosts.

[majicwrench]

Here I go with my old recording again, you need to find out what you are losing, spark, fuel ??
Does engine re-start if you keep trans in gear, clutch in, or do you have to kick it out of gear??
If you can keep it in no-start mode THAT IS THE TIME TO TEST SPARK & FUEL. It cetainly appears to stay dead long enough to determine what you are losing.
I would not go changing anything else without due cause.
Thought....you may have some wiring issues, pondering if the switches on the trans are hooked up correctly. Or wiring pinched/damaged somewhere
BUT FIRST TEST FUEL/SPARK, WHAT ARE YOU LOSING??

[TX82FIAT]

Any updates? Following this for a little while and would love to know what has caused this issue. Ray

[divace73]

Me too...Update please, was it fuel or spark... or other

[BartusCompater]

It looks like the throttle plate was out of adjustment and not returning to idle properly. Corrected that, but still having issues with the car dying once it heats up. Will be sure to update when everything is fixed up.

[manoa matt]

"I recall that when I changed the coolant temp sensor there was no coolant at the T to spill out. Could this have something to do with coolant moving around when the car is in motion or something?"

In order for the coolant temp sensor to work properly, there must be coolant around it. Check,fill, burp the system and make sure there is no air pocket.

[BartusCompater]

Long story short I took the car back to the mechanic because I don't have the time or the gumption to troubleshoot it right now. On Thursday I picked it back up with the mechanic reporting that the throttle plate was out of adjustment. ALSO he disconnected the O2 sensor saying that the car ran better without it. After having it heat up and die on me again, leaving me stranded and forced to take the bus home, I took it back to the mechanic and insisted that they actually drive the car around to replicate the problem.

Picked it back up from them earlier today, they said that they found a loose connection at the dual relay. When I asked the mechanic if that would account for the fact that the car was only dying when warm, he gave me a spiel about how the car has lots of issues and how he's trying to minimize the time that he has with it so that I'm not charged a fortune, then he basically asked me what I wanted him to do with it. I was suspicious that this whole thing might have to do with the fact that I have a leaky radiator and there seems to be a huge pocket of air (hence no coolant spilling out from the temp sensor), something I figured that I could try to deal with myself.

So I got it back from him today (no charge) and test drove it for a little while. After driving flawlessly for about 30 minutes it died on me at a stoplight a block away from my house. It started back up and drove home, only to die again as I pulled into my driveway. It's funny because it doesn't always die when I put the car into motion, sometimes it'll just be sitting there and it will go kaput.

Now I know that this is the part where that broken record starts playing again ( ) and I'm instructed to test for fuel and spark as the car starts to throw its temper tantrum. This is something that I'd like to get around to, but for now lack of time (biggest thing), lack of experience running tests like that, and lack of confidence in my ability to draw conclusions from those tests has left me putting it off.

I'm gonna do some research on burping the cooling system today, see if burping gets me anywhere, and then work from there. I don't really feel like taking it back to the mechanic if the burping doesn't get me anywhere (I get the sense that they're tired of trying to troubleshoot my car and/or that they simply refuse to drive it enough to replicate the real problem), so I may be left with no other option but to spend a day running tests even though I don't feel like I have the time.

Lastly, it may be worth noting that my cooling fan doesn't activate at 190F like I've learned it's supposed to, it always seems to turn on when the gauge is a significant way past that. Not sure what this means in regards to how well the cooling system in general is supposed to work. I'll probably end up checking the thermostat out too.

[divace73]

Firstly you should fix up your coolant leak.
If you have the external thermostat and the coolant level in your head in low (not burped), there is not enough fluid to heat up the thermostat and therefore the radiator is not working for you (more than likely there will not be any coolant in your t piece as well.). You can also tell by feeling the bottom of the radiator compared to the top. If you car is not burped properly the bottom of the radiator (where you fan switch is) will be much colder compared to the top. You temp needle should also be in the hotter zone. You really want the opposite, ensure filling from the highest point in your cooling system, or tilt jack the front of the up so it fill up most of the head.
Saying that this shouldn’t stop you car abruptly.
Did they replace the dual relay, or attempt to repair a dry joint?
Also check the connections are tight on your coil and also (if electronic) check the bottom plug in the electronic module is in properly.

I also had that much vertical play in my distributor shaft that when the car got hot the shaft would slid up stopping the magnetic pick from working
Hope this helps

[BartusCompater]

I'll check out the distributor tomorrow and ign. module tomorrow morning. I remember at one point replacing the cap and rotor and noticing that there was a groove carved into the cap from the rotor spinning (probably on a loose shaft or something). After replacing I checked back and didn't notice any groove so I put it out of mind but it's a good time to check again I think.

[majicwrench]

I'm done with my record playing, just wanted to let you know i feel your pain. And please, don't take it back to that "mechanic". There are qualified, competent technicians out there that can do a good job repairing your car.
Oh, and for goodness sake plug your oxygen sensor back in. Good Grief.
If you wish to run some simple tests to help isolate the system that is failing, I would be glad to help.

[BartusCompater]

So I attempted to burp the cooling system today, not sure if I did it correctly.

1) Jacked up the front of the car.
2) Unhooked and twisted the coolant T to thermostat hose (as per the IAP article here: http://www.international-auto.com/fiat- ... in-cam.cfm)
3) Filled from the hose until coolant came out of the T
4) Reconnected the hose
5) Took out the vent plug at the coolant T and filled from the radiator cap until coolant began to come out of the vent plug.
6) Reinserted the vent plug.
7) Started the car up (with the radiator cap still off).
8 ) Watched bubbles start to come out of radiator neck, coolant spilling over with it.
9) Filled the radiator back up at the filler neck as coolant level got lower.
10) Repeated steps 8 and 9 a couple of times, unsure as to whether or not coolant was just warming up and spilling out, or bubbles were pushing it out.
11) After the coolant in the radiator got low for the third time, stopped the car, lowered it, refilled coolant.

All in all, I think I went through about 3.5L of coolant. I was worried that I was doing something wrong when the coolant seemed to keep coming back out from the radiator and having to be refilled, but looking back on it now I guess it was probably being pushed out by air and I should have kept refilling it until it stopped. Am I right about this?

Ah the humbling nature of playing home mechanic.

[divace73]

Heating up water causes increased pressure, so more coolant will come out, just notice when the bubbles have stopped.

I usually have to give my car a couple of go’s to get it right.
My understanding that if there is enough coolant in the top of the head and the system runs twice fan cycle, then it 'should' self bleed thought the overflow bottle?<--- I could be wrong on this

[bradartigue]

Have you guys not heard of the Prestone Flush and Fill Kit? Buy one. End your coolant woes.

Install the "T" in the kit in the hose running from the back of the head to the heater core. By doing so you've created a high point in the system. Drain the system. Remove radiator cap, turn heater valve on, put in 50% anti freeze. Then Fill up the remainder of the system with h20 until water flows out the radiator. Then put the rad cap on. Next remove the brass bolt in the "T" in front of the head, fill until water flows out. I usually keep the flow of water going while I put that brass bolt back in. Then keep going until water is flowing out of the flush-fill thing. Then cap off.

The thing works like a champ, should be SOP for any Spider and I've never had air bubbles with them.

[manoa matt]

"Have you guys not heard of the Prestone Flush and Fill Kit? Buy one. End your coolant woes."

X2 Yes!! perfect fill every time and no air pockets.