Changed Dist Oil Ring and now won't start...

[radiopilot]

OK... I removed a leaking oil ring on the dizzy, installed a new one and had the crank point line up with the pointer at 0 degrees, and dizzy pointing to #4 and car will not start... what am I doing wrong... car was working fine till the oil ring replacement... getting spark at the plugs and the AFM is working as I can hear it opeing and closing... is there any other place I need to see or do... I have done everything as in the service manual... the pointer molded on the dizzy rotor is pointing to the mark on the dizzy body as stated in the maunal... is there something else?

Help please...

Thanks,

Nick

[So Cal Mark]

the spark plugs are firing? Could you have removed the FI wire from the coil? If so, the injectors won't pulse

[radiopilot]

the spark plugs are firing? Could you have removed the FI wire from the coil? If so, the injectors won't pulse

Spark plugs are firing, I removed the FI wire from the coil and reinstalled it like it was... the rotor is turning as it should, vacuum is reinstalled and I can move it freely but with some pressure as it should...????

Nick

Mark... one question... on the crank pulley the notched mark should be at 0 degrees to the pointer on a metal pointer... in the book it has it pointing to some marks on the plastic timing belt cover... which is correct?

In the book it has the pulley on the pointer at 0 degrees for electronic ignition which is what I have... so is this the correct timing?

Thanks...

[narfire]

The crank mark should be at the "longest" point on the pointer,(0 deg), at the same time the cams are lined up with that raised rib on the cam towers.(seen from the rear). The crank goes around twice to the cams once.
Some here,myself included, have screwed up in the installation of the plug wires. After sorting car worked great.

Ps I'll have some clocks for you in the near future
Chris

[radiopilot]

The crank mark should be at the "longest" point on the pointer,(0 deg), at the same time the cams are lined up with that raised rib on the cam towers.(seen from the rear). The crank goes around twice to the cams once.
Some here,myself included, have screwed up in the installation of the plug wires. After sorting car worked great.

Ps I'll have some clocks for you in the near future
Chris

Chris... I did just that with the mark at 0 degrees on the metal pointer on the right of the crank pulley... none of the plug wires were removed from the dizzy and no other wires were pulled from the dizzy or from the ignition coil side... all I did was replace the oil seal... I can not understand what I'm doing wrong... maybe take a break for the day and look at it tomorrow with fresh eyes.

Regarding the clocks... send me an email later.

Nick

[ventura ace]

Nick, did you catch Chris's comment about the cam timing marks? With the engine at TDC, the cams could be set up for either #1 piston or #4 piston, since the cranshaft turns twice for every one turn of the camshafts. Maybe you having been pointing the dizzy at #4, while the cams are in the #1 position. The cams are in the #4 position when they line up with their marks (and the engine is at TDC at the same time). Make sense?

Alvon

[So Cal Mark]

so you removed the dist with the motor at tdc. Was the engine turned at all? And you reinstalled the dist in the same position? Have you tried spraying some carb cleaner into the air intake to see if the engine will start?
If you have a timing light, have someone crank the engine and you should be able to see if you're getting spark at the right time

[radiopilot]

Alvon and Mark... OK... this is on the FI spider... I cranked the engine after I reinstalled the dizzy back while the crank was on 0 degrees and the dizzy pointing to #4 rotor position. I used the marks on the right side metal pointer (my manual indicated for electronic ignitions this indicator must be used and not the cam cover marking on the lowest left side of the cover ie. 0, 5, 10 degree markings) also my cam cover is void of these timing markings.

I will have to pull the cam cover to see if when I line up the crank at 0 degrees the cams are at the proper position for firing at #4 cylinder.

I will need to check if the wires to the ignition module from the dizzy (white cable with the two wires from the pickup) are shorted... is there an 'ohms' reading or a 'go, no-go' reading for continuity?

Other than that what else should I look for? Plugs are all firing... I will remove the plugs for cleanliness but the car was running perfectly before I saw a small amout of oil from the dizzy/engine interface. I should have left it alone... wasn't a big deal and the oil was not dropping onto the exhaust....

Thanks...

Nick

[majicwrench]

If plugs are indeed firing no use bothering with ohms checks or primary wiring etc. How did you check to make sure they are firing??
ALmost ALWAYS when people remove dist they get it back in off a tooth or two.
Does engine poof pow at all, or does it just crank??

[ventura ace]

If the dizzy is pointing to #4 contact (the contact inside the dizzy cap, not where the outside wire is visible), and the engine is at TDC, then you should either be close to the correct position for running, or 180° out. No big deal. One easy way to check if it is 180° out is to swap plug wires 1 and 4, and swap plug wires 2 and 3. If you do that, and it tries to run, then you were 180° out. You could either leave it that way with the wires in the modified position, or pop the dizzy back out and turn the rotor 180° and pop it back in (and put the wires back in the correct position).

Keep us posted!

Alvon

[radiopilot]

OK... I will have to check on both.... I'm away from the home right now... so when I get back I will see if what Alvon says is correct... the dizzy has a small notch on the large ring that the magnet sits on that the rotor must point to (small arrow) on the top of the rotor while the contact blade is pointed to the #4 plug (inside the dizzy cover)... so if the pointer is pointed to the notch (as in the manual) then it should be correct... right? The plugs are firing because I see the spark jump across... I was thinking maybe the wires to the pickup might have gotten broken or shorted some how... they were jammed in the spacing inside the dizzy...

I will give it another try tonight.... Thanks all...

Nick

[radiopilot]

Reset the timing marks on the crank and dizzy and still no go... I could not take the cam cover off as it got dark quick and my eyes are showing their age... I just could not work any more after several tries of starting her... now I opened the manual and realized it says 'the crank pulley will turn one full revolution for every 1/2 turn on the cam pulley' meaning I may have had the crankpulley correct but the cam pulleys at the wrong place due to the 1/2 turn... I need to pull the cam cover off tomorrow and try again insuring the cams are on spot along with the crank pulley.

Saga continues...

Nick

[ventura ace]

Reset the timing marks on the crank and dizzy and still no go... I could not take the cam cover off as it got dark quick and my eyes are showing their age... I just could not work any more after several tries of starting her... now I opened the manual and realized it says 'the crank pulley will turn one full revolution for every 1/2 turn on the cam pulley' meaning I may have had the crankpulley correct but the cam pulleys at the wrong place due to the 1/2 turn... I need to pull the cam cover off tomorrow and try again insuring the cams are on spot along with the crank pulley.

Saga continues...

Nick

Nick, as the manual says, your distributor may be 1/2 turn off (if the crank was 1/2 turn off when you put it in). It's really easy to verify, without pulling the timing belt cover off: swap #1 and #4 wire on the cap, and swap #2 and #3 wire on the cap. It's like a double negative to get a positive. Swap the wires, and if it cranks, then Bingo, you found the problem. You can then mark where the dizzy rotor is pointing, and pull the dizzy out and put it back in again pointing 180 degrees opposite, then put the wires back in the correct place. Shouldn't need to pull the timing cover. Call me if this doesn't make sense. 805-338-1767

Alvon

[radiopilot]

Alvon... I think you are on to something... but to be sure in my mind I will remove the cover to understand that is what is happening between the cam positions and the crank at 0 degrees... otherwise I'm still guessing... nothing was changed on the dizzy or anything else other than not being able to tell the cams are in the proper position... plus it gives me a reason to check the condition of the timing belt.

I'll give you a call if doing all the above fails to start the car correctly.


Nick

[radiopilot]

OK... this is getting weird...

I took off the cam cover and lined up the cam marks like they are supposed to and the crank is at the right position... the rotor is set to fire #4 cylinder, getting spark, but engine will not start... could the engine be flooded on a FI car?
The AFM is flapping and I could hear it open and close on starting, all other connections are on tightly...?

I will remove the spark plugs tomorrow and see if it's soaking wet with fuel... and insure they are not fouled up... other than that what else should I look for? I'm getting very frustrated at this time with the car and time spent trying to get it started...

Nick