spitting at me through the carb...

[So Cal Mark]

that water choke will take a long time to cool off and close. You'll get a lot better performance with the ignition timing at 10 rather than 5.

[lamborghinikid]

there are 3 marks 1st closest to the ground I have it set on the first. It would still be nice to know where all these vac lines go as in a drawing or something. thanks again

[lamborghinikid]

When standing in front of the tree all you see is the bark, take a step back. Sometimes it works sometimes your just screwed. When I picked up this car it came with all kinds of new parts of which was a new tensioner and timing belt. The guy I bought the car from also has a 77 spider sitting in the garage at his house, come to find out I am using the belt that is for that car and not a 79 which means I am always 2 teeth off, and will never be in time. ( Have you ever timed a car 25 times and still not got it right) I kept blaming the carb, which is part of the problem because it is running too rich it almost burns your eyes. So I installed the old belt and wallah it runs I'm in for a new belt... So to recap heres what I"ve learned when you don't know for sure research because you guys have been a great source start here. There are 4 points start with the cams, the best marks to use are the ones behind the cam pulleys the best way to get these right is to use 2 nails that will go through the small holes on the pulleys into the valve cover box. That will make sure they are lined up. Next is the auxiliary cam I just point it towards the nut in the 1 o'clock position facing the engine. Next the crank this is confusing to a novice that being me. Everyone says that this car runs best at 10 degrees well I thought that meant put the thing on the first big pointer ( with one bolt on it and a rivet) I think that really means put the mark on the crank pulley about an inch in front of the first big mark,. and that is about 10 degrees. I have found this is where the car runs best so please correct me if I am wrong. Next I turn the distributor to where the cap is firing the #4 spark plug. I leave this loose because with the timing light I can adjust the idle when it starts up. Then tign it up because it will move. Then I put the belt on counter clockwise pull the nails out of the cam wheels very important before starting. And this should work. It is the closest I have got this car so far. Oh and filling the water system is easy once you install a radiator flush tee on the hose from the heater core to the head makes it real easy. Now I need a good read on how to tune this carb any suggestions its running way too rich,.. Thanks for all the help you guys and girls are true gear heads.

[ventura ace]

.... Next the crank this is confusing to a novice that being me. Everyone says that this car runs best at 10 degrees well I thought that meant put the thing on the first big pointer ( with one bolt on it and a rivet) I think that really means put the mark on the crank pulley about an inch in front of the first big mark,. and that is about 10 degrees. I have found this is where the car runs best so please correct me if I am wrong. ....:

When installing the timing belt, the engine needs to be at Top Dead Center (zero degrees) for #1 and #4 pistons. The other timing marks are correct as you described. The distributor rotor should be pointed in the vicinity of firing for #4.

When setting the distributor timing, I agree that 10 degrees before top dead center is a good place to start for the idle speed timing (checking with a timing light, vacuum advance disconnected). The adjustment is made by rotating the distributor housing until the timing light indicates the timing that you prefer, then tighten the distributor clamp nut. This setting should not be confused with the positioning of the timing belt -- in other words, you would not loosen the tensioner and reset the timing belt to a different position other than zero degrees TDC. I'm not sure if that's what you meant in your description, but that's the way that I perceived it when I read it.

Alvon

[lamborghinikid]

I have lined up the mark on the crankshaft to top dead center and it will not run, if I go about an inch in front of the TDC notch or arrow it runs but not with poor performance at lower RPM. This is done before starting the engine. I have never had a problem timing a car before I have got one 180 out before but I don't think thats possible with this car. I have tried everything as in timing. I should do a dance with the sun setting through the right forks of the oak tree. If it works I'm all for it.

[So Cal Mark]

you're confusing igntion timing with camshaft timing. They are two VERY different things

[ventura ace]

Where are you located? Maybe a hands-on encounter with another Fiat owner will help clarify.

Actually, there's nothing specific to Fiat engines for this concept. The crankshaft-to-camshaft timing (and rough distributor timing) is achieved by setting indicators to their marks, and then setting proper tension to a drive belt (or chain). Then, distributor timing is set with the engine running, typically using a timing light to verify a desired setting.

Alvon

[lamborghinikid]

I live in northern kentucky close to cincinnati,. I have worked on alot of cars and trucks was a generator mechanic in the army and had 3 124s while in the service never a problem 20 years ago though. I rebuilt my 460l tranny in my chevy truck last year and the engine this year. I stretched a feiro 5inches and swapped the engine with a 3.8 sc. But this particular car is a serious headache... I am using the little gauge at that swivels near the crank shaft. There was a yellow timing cover on the car which I took off, I looked at it it has no timing marks on it. Did I miss something. I counted the teeth on the belt it has 146 so I know its the right belt. I do need a new belt but the one I'm using isn't that bad, and should work for timing purposes. I had it running yesterday but when it started it ran fine just had poor torque and didn't want to pull a small hill even however the higher revs were great once it was moving on flat ground it drove really nice in the higher rev limit. The engine is my spare the 79 is set aside I would like to build it up this winter. so the engine I'm using came from a 80 Fi 5speed I pulled the engine and auto tranny out of the 79 and installed the 80 with a carb and intake off a 77. I have several fiat parts cars. The car runs its just a timing and fine tuning issue. I am getting ready to mess with it again today any suggestions I'm all ears. Thanks for all the help....

[cski]

You are working on a 1979 Spider that originally had a carbureted 2-liter engine and an automatic transmission. You now have in that 1979 car; an '80 2-liter block and head (that was originally fuel-injected), with an intake manifold and an (unspecified) carb either from a '78 (according to your second post on this thread) or from a '77 (according to your most recent post on this thread), a distributor from who-knows-where-and-when (although I don't know if that matters at all), and a 5-speed tranny.

Did I get that right?

Is it possible that the distributor or it's advance mechanism is mis-matched or incorrectly hooked up? If so, could that possibly produce the symptoms described by LK?

any suggestions I'm all ears.

Some good snapshots of what you have going on in the engine bay might help someone on the forum help you. Also maybe try some paragraphs.

[lamborghinikid]

The dist, came with the 80 fI and it ran the only thing changed on the engine was the intake to a single plane and a carb, the fi was done away with. My stupidity I had the timing light on the #1 plug insted of the #4 Don't ask why? I am getting closer with it I think most of the problem is in the carb..

[majicwrench]

#1 or #4 will work fine for the ignition timing.

[SLOSpider]

If you dont have the crank set at top dead center and the cams at their marks then it will never run right. Sett the crank advanced is NOT what you want. You can test TDC with a long screw driver down #1 cylinder then set your cam marks. and your aux pulley at 1:00. Install your belt with all those settings and set your tensioner. Turn over by hand at least 2 full revolutions and recheck for TDC and your cams are still lined up. If all this is good and its not running correct then you need to check your distributor timing. With the engine at TDC and the cams aligned the rotor should be pointing to # 4 contact, you may be a tooth off. If its at # 4 then you should have enough room to move the distributor back and forth as need to have an easy start up. If it is not starting easy then you have other problems like electrical pickup air gap, chaffed wires, weak coil, weak 12v to coil, vacuum leak, plugged carb passages, worn valves, you get the picture. But if you dont start with the correct settings on your timing belt you are not getting any progress.

[lamborghinikid]

Starting with basics Compression check with the marks all lined up the crank on the top notch TDC I am getting 70 psi if I move it down to the 1st notch I am getting 105 psi I can get 120 if I move the crank mark 1/2 inch below the first notch. I don't know what the compression should be but I know it should be equal and it is either at 70 psi or 120 psi so does this tellyou may be the cams are off or is it he belt? I just want to get good compression before I worry about the dist.. or the carb. Is there a way to check the cams for true alignment. Am I going about this wrong.

[jsab]

First verify that TDC is actually TDC. You may have a broken key on the crank pulley, meaning that it has spun. Use the long screwdriver on number 1 piston and rotate engine to get the piston to it's highest point, that is TDC. Look at your crank pulley. Where is the mark? is it on 0 degrees? If it is not on zero degrees, by a half inch or more, then you probably have a broken key on the crank, and no matter how many times you line up the marks, it's going to be off. This is more common than most people think.

[majicwrench]

Like SLOspider said, set the CAM timing properly and then leave it alone!! There is only ONE way to set the cam timing, moving it 1/2" this way or that is NOT the right way. Set the cam timing, then start worrying about everything else
Keith