95 Amp Alternator Conversion Problem

[radionovember]

Hi,
I just bought a 95 Amp Alternator from Auto Ricambi and tried installing it but something didnt go right and I'm not sure what. I removed the old alternator by unplugging the wires and removing the belt and then the alternator itself. Then I situated in the new one, moved the new belt in place...



...and plugged in the connectors according to the directions sent with the alternator.



There was a green wire which was supposed to be for the alternator light so I'm assuming these were the 2 that plugged into each other...





Here's a pictures of all the wires left after i connected the one ring terminal from the alternator and the 2 from the car wiring to the alternator stud.



When i re-connected the negative battery cable and cranked it up, I had power but the engine started to idle inconsistently (kinda revving lower and higher), the stereo read "protect" and i'm pretty sure there was actually some smoking going on from the engine area. Only thing I can think is maybe I didnt tighten the belt enough or maybe I didnt plug something in correctly.

Can anyone help me figure this out? I know I could just take it to a shop but I really wanna understand what I'm doing and really learn this stuff. Thanks so much for the help!

[maytag]

tell us what car? is it injected? the inconsistent idle would lead me to think so. Your "Protect" on your stereo is more thsn likely because you disconnected the battery. is it aftermarket? do you have a code for it?

[Foster48x]

I had the same symptoms when the voltage regulator went out on my alternator. Yours may just be hooked up wrong. I wouldn't run it too much until you get the wiring worked out if your getting smoke from the engine compartment.

Rick

[radionovember]

Oh sorry...
Yeah, its fuel injected. Its an 82 fiat 2000 spider. the stereo IS aftermarket but I dont have a code that I know of. When I went back to look at the connections, it looked like the green and black wires werent plugged in very tightly so I'm think they may not have had a good connection. To be honest, I dont even know what either of those wires do. The black one was plugged into a slot on my old alternator and I'm pretty sure it just had to be plugged into the green one on this thing. so maybe that couldve had something to do with the voltage regulation? I was afraid to crank it again, but i think tomorrow i'll head back out and try it with those cables fastened more securely. thanks for the help guys... and i definitely wont let it run much at all till I get this sorted out.

[zachmac]

I have an Auto Ricambi 95 amp alt. on my 80 FI car and it is wired as you show. The weird thing is all my alternator wires are a different color than yours but looking at the locations, my wiring and yours are the same.

How charged is your battery? Mark Allison had a post recently where he states that a weak battery will cause FI cars to run poorly. In theory if the alternator is using all of its output to try to bring a weak battery up to snuff it leaves a weal voltage for the FI ???? Make sure all your connections are tight and make sure your battery is fully charged. An alternator is NOT designed to charge a battery, just to keep it charged.

[beachboy]

Yes, a weak battery could effect the FI, because the system runs off the brown wire straight from the battery and not from the alternator. Its really a mixed system, because the fuel pump and dual relay get powered by the ignition. But if you can start the car, there should be plenty for the FI system.

When you turn the key to ON, the battery light should come ON at the dash. When you start the car, the light should go OFF. That shows a correctly charging system. My question is why did you get the new alternator, was it impulse buy or was the old alternator going? If the alternator was going, then I would also have the battery checked at a local auto parts store also.

[majicwrench]

I would absolutely positively have a VOLT METER hooked up to your battery when you start the car again, I would be worried that your voltage is going way tooooooo high. Voltage should not be going over 15 volts.
I don't want to speak for Mark but I believe he had a post concerning a weak battery causing the injectors not to fire when CRANKING. Once running the battery has little to do with how the car runs. And if the battery has enough juice to start the vehicle, it has plenty to run the FI system.
Again, make sure you have a volt meter hooked up.
Keith

[beachboy]

Great response about have a volt meter to check cranking voltage.
The computer, injectors and fuel management system is only powered by the battery, not the alternator. Fuel injected cars have a brown wire that is attached to the battery that powers that system, so a weak battery would definitely have an effect on Fuel injection.

[Foster48x]

Another way to check and see if your voltage reg on that alt is not working or hooked up incorrectly is to start the car and turn on the headlights. Rev the engine, if the headlights get brighter when you rev it up then you getting excess voltage from the alt. Or you can hook a voltmeter to a hot wire while reving it and get the same result.

Rick

[majicwrench]

Beachboy,
It is not cranking voltage I am concered about, it is charging voltage.
I respectfully disagree about the battery running the system. ONce started then everything in the car pretty much runs off the alternator. The brown wire may be attched to the battery, but once car is running you could virtually take the battery out and the car would continue to run.
Again, it take a ton of amperage to start the car, if the battery will do that, even without the charging system, it can run the FI system if need be. But with a working charging system, the alternator is creating the current that is running the cars electrical system as it recharges the battery, which gets drained during cranking.
I would check voltage running before I would turn my lights on, if voltage is spiking you will blow the lights!

This is not a battery problem.
Keith

[beachboy]

Majic,
We all know that you are correct that the alternator puts out enough amps to run the entire vehicle including Fuel Injection. There is always a but, in this case, the fuel injection system is analog and is susceptible to line voltage drops and interference from the alternator itself, radio, buzzers, wiper motor, etc. That is why the entire Fuel Injection system is fed from one unfused wire at the battery and not coming off the starter or alternator.
This is how Bosch explains it in their manual and I always just accepted it, but they could be wrong.

[jimincalif]

Of course the alternator output is connected to the lug on the starter motor, which is connected to the battery, so electrically it is all equivalent. The battery acts like a big cushion, absorbing spikes and providing current when the alternator can't provide enough, such as when at low idle with lights, fan, wipers, etc. all running, or when a sudden load is added to the electrical system.

There is a slight time lag with the voltage regulator. If you put a load on such as turning on the lights, the regulator has to sense this voltage drop and then react by increasing the current going to the alternator field, which then increases the alternator's output and brings the voltage back up. If the battery were not in the loop, any sudden electrical load would likely cut the FI system out before the regulator could react to increase the voltage.

This is exactly what happened with my wife's Nissan, the battery failed by essentially losing the series connection between two cells. Went to start it, no start, no nothing. Tested the voltage, 12.6v, tested the cells with a hydrometer, all good. But as soon as any load was applied, such as turning on the lights, the voltage dropped to zero. There was enough of a connection that the tiny amount of current needed to register on the voltmeter could pass, but no more. I jump-started the car and it ran fine, but as soon as any electrical accessory was turned on the car would die as the voltage would momentarily drop. I jumped it again and then turned on the lights while it was still jumped and no problem, the other car carried the momentary load. And I could then disconnect the jumper cables and it would keep running with the lights on because the regulator had already adjusted for their current draw. Once I had the problem figured out it was pretty interesting and I experimented quite a bit just to see how it all worked.

[maytag]

radionovember:
You're getting lots of good info here, but not sure how much of it is helpful to you yet. So to get back to your immediate issue:

Did the new alternator come with any directions on HOW to hook it up? It seems there was a little bit of assumption and even some guessing that went on there? (no offense, that's how these cars were designed originally, too!b )

I think you've likely got a couple of issues here; ignore the radio for now. I'm quite certain that is due to being disconnected from power. If you google the model # of the stereo, you should be able to find the correct manual, and in it, a process to restore it. This is a security feature designed to disable the stereo if removed from the car. You might have to jump through some hoops with the manufacturer (assuming you weren't the original purchaser?)

So that leaves the idle problem, and the "possible" smoke. Smoke is always a sign that something's not right. But "Possible" smoke isn't. It'd be good to know if there really IS smoke, and what sort, from where.

Here's what I'd do:
See if you can get some support from the folks you bought the alt from, as to what each wire should be hooked to (not what color wire, but what each wire's function is) and then we can help you trace and be sure you've got it connected properly.

I am not tending to think that there's anything wrong with the battery at this point, nor does this sound like a failure to tighten the belt properly. (YET, but I have seen OVERLY-tightened belts do some funky things! )

[radionovember]

hey guys... thank you so much for all trying to help me figure this out here. you guys are really amazing to take time out of your day to write and try to help. sorry its taken all day to write back but i had church this morning and then the afternoon with the girlfriend before she flys out for the week.

So i got a multimeter and tested voltage as much as i could. the battery reads 12 so i think its ok. i un-did my alternator connection and re-connected everything to make sure but the first time i cranked it again it idled even lower and after messing with it a third time and trying to crank, it just wouldnt stay cranked at all.

i went back and install the old alternator again and it looked it cranked ok but it idled low. i let it keep running and the idle built back up. now that i think about it, its really always done that (well, at least for the last 3 weeks that i've owned it). the guy i bought it from said i'd just need to let it warm up and it would be fine. honestly, there's even been time that it wouldnt crank at all. i'd try it a couple of times and then it would crank but idle low and then build back to around 10 rpms. i'm now assuming thats not necessarily normal for these cars, huh? dangit.

one last thing to mention is that i had to install the old alt belt like it was before, which was upside down. grooves are supposed to go on the wheels, right? when i removed it, they were facing up. unfortunately, thats the only way it would fit. the other ways too tight and i cant get it around the wheels. its also missing grooves and such so i'm just hoping it'll last a little longer till i get this figured out.

the directions fo the new one tell me there will be a gap between the mounting bracket and the upper alt bracket so to install the included washers to make up the difference. then it say to connect all the ring terminals to the alt stud and the green wire to the wire going to the alternator light. then its just to connect the negative batter cable and test it.

there does also seen to still be smoke, or at least a kinda burning smell but yeah, now that i'm thinking, it might have always been there and i just assumed it was ok cause i hadnt taken anything out. i'm honestly not even sure how to describe the smell. sorry, i'm not that great with this stuff. i'm the guy that generally goes in and says, "well, its making this sound". i hate being that guy. eventually i'm hoping to be able to just know, like you guys.

[So Cal Mark]

it sounds like you have the alt connected properly, but that belt is a problem. More than likely you're smelling rubber burning from the belt slipping. I doubt the low idle when cold is from the charging system