72' 124 starting issue
- maytag
- Posts: 1789
- Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:22 pm
- Your car is a: 1976 124 spider
- Location: Rocky Mountains....UTAH! (Not Colorado)
Re: 72' 124 starting issue
I just popped-in and read the last page of posts here... so if I'm coming-in int he middle of the movie, forgive me.
I'd suggest cleaning the carb with some compressed air, carb-cleaner and safety glasses, just like Magic suggested. It'd be fantastic if you took it off the car, put it on a banch and dissassembled enough to get to everything. But be careful not to change anything!
Put it back on and before you fire it up, run it from a gas-can with new gas, rather than the fuel tank. Just drop a length of fuel line into the can and see how it runs in the driveway. if it's good, then hook-up the fuel tank and see if it stays good. this will help you narrow-down if there's a fuel issue.
And have you checked your points? I'm sure Magic probably walked you through this, but?
I'd suggest cleaning the carb with some compressed air, carb-cleaner and safety glasses, just like Magic suggested. It'd be fantastic if you took it off the car, put it on a banch and dissassembled enough to get to everything. But be careful not to change anything!
Put it back on and before you fire it up, run it from a gas-can with new gas, rather than the fuel tank. Just drop a length of fuel line into the can and see how it runs in the driveway. if it's good, then hook-up the fuel tank and see if it stays good. this will help you narrow-down if there's a fuel issue.
And have you checked your points? I'm sure Magic probably walked you through this, but?
I'm no Boy-Racer..... but if I can't take every on-ramp at TWICE the posted limit.... I'm a total failure!
Re: 72' 124 starting issue
Good idea, along the lines of what Keith recommended.
Points look decent, from what I can tell. I do need to adjust timing.
Should have a better idea Monday.
The carb intimidates me, worried it will turn into a mess. But I gotta learn somehow right?
Points look decent, from what I can tell. I do need to adjust timing.
Should have a better idea Monday.
The carb intimidates me, worried it will turn into a mess. But I gotta learn somehow right?
- maytag
- Posts: 1789
- Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:22 pm
- Your car is a: 1976 124 spider
- Location: Rocky Mountains....UTAH! (Not Colorado)
Re: 72' 124 starting issue
when you say "the points look good".... have you checked the gap and the dwell? These two variables will affect the duration / intensity of the charge / spark you get. And they're easily adjusted, particularly since it sounds like you've found a friend in the guy at your parts store.
Don't let the carb intimidate you. If there's a lot of 'stuff' (I can't recall what all smog equip is on a '72, but it can';t be much) then take pictures and label stuff as you take it apart. It'll be fine.
Don't let the carb intimidate you. If there's a lot of 'stuff' (I can't recall what all smog equip is on a '72, but it can';t be much) then take pictures and label stuff as you take it apart. It'll be fine.
I'm no Boy-Racer..... but if I can't take every on-ramp at TWICE the posted limit.... I'm a total failure!
Re: 72' 124 starting issue
My Haynes and official Fiat workshop aren't as clear on dwell as I'd like. I'm a very tactile learner. Do it once, I've got it. I mean, I tore my Ducati down for Pete's sake (who is Pete by the way?) I'm off Monday, and I'll tackle all that's been suggested. Thanks for the replies. I was up in Cherokee Co last year, Mingo Falls, beautiful.
Re: 72' 124 starting issue
Am out of town and not by my personal computer.....
Points, really I don't think it is a point issue, but always good to check. Just hand turnt he motor till you get the points open to their widest gap. Gap should be something tween .012 and .018, it will all work. Not sure what the exact sepc is.
Carb......I have the picture at home of the low speed jet location which is the first thing you should pull and clean. Is super easy if you know where it is, will be home tomorrow morn.
Understand carb being a little scary, but is an easy carb. Too many people take too much apart and get in trouble. Will go over that when I get home.
Keith
Points, really I don't think it is a point issue, but always good to check. Just hand turnt he motor till you get the points open to their widest gap. Gap should be something tween .012 and .018, it will all work. Not sure what the exact sepc is.
Carb......I have the picture at home of the low speed jet location which is the first thing you should pull and clean. Is super easy if you know where it is, will be home tomorrow morn.
Understand carb being a little scary, but is an easy carb. Too many people take too much apart and get in trouble. Will go over that when I get home.
Keith
Re: 72' 124 starting issue
thanks Keith, much obliged. I plan on starting in the morning. I know the timing is way off, hash marks were pretty advanced.
Re: 72' 124 starting issue
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/ ... issouri031.
[/img]
Sorry bout the bad pic. This is the screw you need to pull out. It is called the Idling jet carrier in my book. Right behind it, usually comes out with it, is the idling jet, just small brass tube. This is also called the low speed jet and affects idle and part throttle big time. Pull out jet, has TINY hole, clean with carb cleaner and compressed air, even that air in a can will work. Now piss carb cleaner into hole where jet goes, now compressed air. Got your safetly glasses on right?? You can pull out idle mix screw as well and do the same if you wish to get idle passeges good and clean. Idle mix screw should be bottom very lightly and turned back out about two turns to start with. There is another jet like this on the other side of carb in same spot, this is the one for the primary side.
The big main jets very rarely have issues, holes are big enough they are hard to plug.
Could also pull top off carb, and see what is in bowl. Water, gunk will settle to bottom of bowl, jet are not right on the bottom to keep em from sucking up the gunk, but if gunk gets deep enough will start getting into jets, engines run poorly on water.
Really, if you pull idling jets out, pull top off, now carb clean thru various jets adn clean out bowl, you have fixed 95% of carb issues. Accel pump can cause probs too, it is outside carb and easy to change if leaking.
Keith
[/img]
Sorry bout the bad pic. This is the screw you need to pull out. It is called the Idling jet carrier in my book. Right behind it, usually comes out with it, is the idling jet, just small brass tube. This is also called the low speed jet and affects idle and part throttle big time. Pull out jet, has TINY hole, clean with carb cleaner and compressed air, even that air in a can will work. Now piss carb cleaner into hole where jet goes, now compressed air. Got your safetly glasses on right?? You can pull out idle mix screw as well and do the same if you wish to get idle passeges good and clean. Idle mix screw should be bottom very lightly and turned back out about two turns to start with. There is another jet like this on the other side of carb in same spot, this is the one for the primary side.
The big main jets very rarely have issues, holes are big enough they are hard to plug.
Could also pull top off carb, and see what is in bowl. Water, gunk will settle to bottom of bowl, jet are not right on the bottom to keep em from sucking up the gunk, but if gunk gets deep enough will start getting into jets, engines run poorly on water.
Really, if you pull idling jets out, pull top off, now carb clean thru various jets adn clean out bowl, you have fixed 95% of carb issues. Accel pump can cause probs too, it is outside carb and easy to change if leaking.
Keith
Re: 72' 124 starting issue
Thanks Keith. Just tested the first cyclinder, right at 90 psi, not good heh? Too make sure I did this right, I removed the plug, installed adapter/tester, crank, let run? I did give it some throttle, hit below 100 psi. Now about to test the rest, then adjust dwell/timing. Then pull carb.
Re: 72' 124 starting issue
running compression will be lower than cranking compression due to valve overlap
Re: 72' 124 starting issue
So far, I'm at 90 psi on all cylinders. So I should watch it as it cranks?
Re: 72' 124 starting issue
I'm at 120 psi on cylinder 2. There's a little oil residue on the end of my adapter. Blow by, worn rings?
Re: 72' 124 starting issue
Spence,
You need to pull all plugs, disable ignition system just to keep sparks from flying all over. Then compression test one cyclinder at a time. I usually like it to crank and hit compression 5 times or so, you can hear it hit the compression or watch gauge go up. Testing with engine running will yeild low results that don't mean much. At this time don't worry bout a little oil on adapter.
Test compression again and let us know. Pull all plugs.
You need to pull all plugs, disable ignition system just to keep sparks from flying all over. Then compression test one cyclinder at a time. I usually like it to crank and hit compression 5 times or so, you can hear it hit the compression or watch gauge go up. Testing with engine running will yeild low results that don't mean much. At this time don't worry bout a little oil on adapter.
Test compression again and let us know. Pull all plugs.
Re: 72' 124 starting issue
Got it. Well, who wants to rebuild my carb? I have it out, gaskets looked rough, vacuum advance etc.
I don't like carbs, too mechanical. lol
I don't like carbs, too mechanical. lol
Re: 72' 124 starting issue
Just bought a new carb from Mark. One thing, when I was taking out the old carb, this broke on the master/booster:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nobodysdarling/5115640544/
What's it called and where can I get it? Do I have to replace the whole assembly on the master?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nobodysdarling/5115640544/
What's it called and where can I get it? Do I have to replace the whole assembly on the master?