Spider running again, thanks to a few helpers!

[ventura ace]

After many months of rebuilding the engine, drive shaft, rear axle seals, tranny seals, and a few other odds and ends, our '70 124 spider is running again. Many thanks to Gary Poage and his son Patrick, who stopped by a couple weeks ago for several hours to help with valve and cam timing adjustments, and especially to Ron Luxmore, who spent all day with me Sunday, dropping the engine in and hooking everything up to make it run. It cranked on the first turn of the key, and idled smooth as could be. Thanks again to both of you good buddies for helping me get it rolling again!

A couple of things are not quite right:
1) There's a vibration that I've never had before, a mild sort of vibration between 1000 and 1400 rpm, with a pronounced resonance at 1600 rpm, and another faint hint of vibration at about 2600 rpm. I'm hoping that it's maybe just carburetor adjustments, but afraid that it's a mechanical unbalance in the engine. It's dissapointing if that's the case, since a lot of care was taken to balance all the rotating and reciprocating parts down to a gnat's rear end. I'll report back after I've had time to sync the 40 IDF's and check the distributor advance curve.
2) The car warmed up nicely, and the fan came on as expected, but during the 8 mile test drive, the engine ran warmer than it should. The thermostat opened up and regulated nicely during the warm up, and the radiator hoses warmed up as they should. I'm hoping it's a matter of the distributor advance possibly being retarded. I had put stiffer springs for the centifugal weights to retard the advance , so maybe I've retarded it too much. The radiator water level was down by about 1 - 2 quarts (didn't get all the air out initially), so I filled it up, and tried another test drive the next day, but with the same result -- running too hot. I'll check the distributor advance this weekend.

Alvon

[kmead]

Sounds like you still have air in there, it being down that amount means there was likely more air as well. Also keep in mind your gauge/sender may not be as accurate as one might think. If the fan isn't running constantly you may not be in as bad a situation as you are being led to believe by the gauge.

As to the vibration, which engine mounts did you install on the car? On the 1970 models they used the hollow engine mounts with springs inside versus the later solid ones. Depending on which you have it may be causing part of the problem. (I prefer the solid as it makes the car easier to drive as there is less compliance in the driveline)

As for the resonance, it may be an issue with your ancillaries more than the quality of the engine. I would look carefully at the alignment of the alternator, the tightness of its connections and so on. I would also look at the exhaust fitment for issues with where it is and particularly relative to the transmission mounting point. Given the transient nature of the vibrations I would doubt its a fault in the engine assembly.

Glad you are back on the road. Sounds like it will be great driver when all is sorted out. Getting smogged is likely going to be interesting given your car's new specifications, unless its age drops it off the requirements now.

[ventura ace]

Karl,
Thanks for your inputs.

I'll check the coolant situation, but I'm fairly certain that all the air is out now. Both hoses get warm and the fan kicks on when idling, but when driving the lower hose cools down a good bit, suggesting to me that the radiator is doing a good job of cooling, but it also could mean that the radiator is partially plugged and not passing enough water through it.

For the vibration, I did have an issue with one of the engine mounts. They are the hollow type. The lower mounting stud on the passenger side must have come unattached from the case of the mount, because it won't tighten. I'll swap it out to see if it makes a difference. I like the hollow ones because they are the shortest engine mount that I know of (even shorter than the Volvo mounts that some people use), and it helps with hood clearance for my flat hood clearing the carburetor filters. I'll check the other things that you mentioned also. The aux shaft spins very easily. I can disconnect the alternator and water pump briefly to eliminate that possibility. The exhaust is mouted very securely to the transmission (bracket that wraps around the pipe and attacheds to lower rear studs on transmission). I can disconnect the bracket to see if that makes a difference with the vibration.

Thanks again for the ideas.

I don't have smog issues for the '70 in CA. Anything older than '75 is exempt.

Alvon

[kmac33]

Alvon,
Glad to hear you have the 70 up and running again. I hope you get the vibration sorted out - I have to agree that it doesn't sound like it a rotating mass balance issue. Keep us posted on what you find.
As for the motor running a little hot, don't completely discount air in the cooling system. After I put mine back together, I burped the system and everything worked like it should while getting the timing and idle dialed in - fan kicked on at the right time, engine temp stayed just below 190, etc. I then drove the car about 20 miles total to get the exhaust installed and the alignment done - again everything perfect. Then the very next day drove the car and temp started climbing. I ended up having to burp the system one more time. No issues since. You could have a small pocket of transient air that is the culprit.

[rlux4]

Working with Ace was, as usual, a total pleasure. It was a long day, but I got fed twice, so I scored. Especially nice was the meal I'd been promised after work was done at "real nice" resturaunt. Ace and his wife Maureen drove all the way over to the next town to get me to this special resturaunt. What can I say? They are such thoughtful people.
Ron

[ventura ace]

Working with Ace was, as usual, a total pleasure. It was a long day, but I got fed twice, so I scored. Especially nice was the meal I'd been promised after work was done at "real nice" resturaunt. Ace and his wife Maureen drove all the way over to the next town to get me to this special resturaunt. What can I say? They are such thoughtful people.
Ron

Ron's poking fun at me -- it was so late when we got finished (9:00 on Sunday night), that everything was closed except Carl's Jr. Since Ron is special, we splurged and let him get the meal instead of just a hamburger!

[ga.spyder]

Glad to hear you are up and running again.I'm sure will get the minor issues worked out before too long.Congrats

[jimincalif]

Great news Alvon!

Carls Jr. I hope Ron at least ordered the six dollar burger and not just a star combo!

Jim

[mdrburchette]

Finally, you got your car up and running! Does that mean you're bringing it to Dixie Fiatfest? Can't wait to see the family again!

[ventura ace]

Finally, you got your car up and running! Does that mean you're bringing it to Dixie Fiatfest? Can't wait to see the family again!

If we were within 500 miles of Dixie, I'd make the drive. We'll be flying instead. Most of the family won't be able to get together until the week after Labor Day, but Mo and I are planning to be there for the Fest, and to see you girls race on Friday night! Looking forward to seeing you southerners again, too.

A

[ventura ace]

After many hours of racking my brain and trying various things to isolate the vibration, I can report success! The exhaust downpipe was in contact with the cross member, and I mean solid contact. If it was light contact, it would have been buzzing or rattling, and easy to figure out.

Anyway, that's what it was. I loosened all the engine mount bracket and engine mount bolts, and raised the engine and tranny on jacks, then wedged the engine backward as much as possilbe, and retightened all the bolts. Was able to get about 1/8" clearance, and the vibration is gone. Sure does run smooth! I can turn the idle down to about 200 rpm (tach reads zero), and it still runs.

It still runs a little warm. Today, I replaced the thermostat, and removed the radiator to verify that it isn't plugged up, and changed to a different distributor that has a 'quicker' advance curve. Still runs a little hotter than it used to, but acceptable, as long as I keep the heater water valve open to help get water flow to the rear of the head.

Alvon

[kmead]

Glad to hear it was something simple. Unfortunate it was something that required so much work to fix. You might consider using an alternative temp sensor and gauge (whats the story of the man with two watches?) to verify its actual temperature.

Hmm 200 rpm, what do you have there a steam engine? Glad you are back on the road.