72' 124 starting issue

[spence]

Hi guys, glad to be a part of the board and have such a great resource.
Bought a good specimen of 124 Friday, was running when delivered, owner said it had been sitting up for a few months, he had used starting fluid to get it started. I attempted to take it for a spin on my lunch break, wouldn't start. I got it to turn over a few times, ran for 2 seconds, then stalled out. The ignition seems to be intermittent as well, sometimes it turns over, others nothing. No click of the solenoid or turn of starter. I put fresh gas in, used starter fluid, again, turned over a few times, ran, then stalled. I did notice when I wiggled the ignition it would turn over, I'm thinking bad ignition switch among other things. Also noticed the wipers barely moved then stopped. Lights looked good, so I'm sure the battery has a decent charge. Did not have any of my tools on me, and I was at work. I haven't any days off, so I had to tow back to my town, drop at a regular ASE shop that a neighbor recommended. I'm nervous, guy said they don't usually work on cars this old. Any suggestions as to what issues may be lurking?

[JohnnyRaggs]

Hey spence, looks like your car is just like mine, I have a '71. What I did to get mine running was first and foremost clean out all the bad fuel. I did this by hooking up a battery charger, taking off the fuel line to the fuel filter (should be just infront of the carb), or take it off the carb and crank the engine, catching the fuel in a large container until good fuel starts to flow. If that doesn't help, you may have to rebuild the carb as it could be gummed up (mine was). Another good thing to check is compression. As far as the ignition goes, you could have a loose connection or a shot switch.

Hope this helps

John

[Exit98]

Hey Spense,

The smart guys will give you good mechanical advice to get you back on the road and get the car reliable.

I have other kind of advice. You just bought an almost 40 year old Italian sports car for less that a couple grand. Its gonna need some work. Get the car home and then work through the issues step by step. Ignition switches on these cars are problematic. Just "search" for "ignition switch" and you'll find plenty to read and some good clues what to look for and how to fix it.

Chances are the car has hardly been diriven for a long time. You need to go through the fuel system and change filters and so forth and see how bad the tank is.

All the fluids should be changed. How are the brakes? Are the tires any good?

You get the idea. One step at a time. Make a priority list. Anything mechanical on these cars can be fixed.

Good Luck.

[spence]

Thanks for the replies. The brakes seem ok for the time being, tires are pretty new, should last for a bit. Now for the not so smart part, this is my only transportation. I let my emotions get the best of me, I saw it, had to have it. Having a lot of faith it's nothing major. Hoping the shop can get her running, then I can do the essentials on my days off.
Parts are pretty cheap, that's a plus. The time to do the repairs, now that's in rare quantities.
Saw the topics on the ignition switches, is it better to replace or rebuild? See mixed views on that.

[majicwrench]

It is better to TEST the switch first before replacing. The shop you have car at should be able to diagnose the no crank in minutes, if they are a competent shop. Guessing gets real expensive.
You probably have on big ( battery) cable going to your starter and one small wire. Small wire is from ign switch and when energized will cause starter to turn. Get a cheapy test light, ground clip, verify it lights by touching it to the Battery + term, then check the big cable at starter. Should be hot, test light should light. Now have a buddy crank engine. If engine cranks, no point in testing. If engine doesn't crank, have buddy hold key in crank position, and see if big cable still hot. It should be. Then see if small wire hot. It should be. If big wire hot and small wire hot, and still no crank, you likley have a starter issue. If big wire not hot in crank position, you have a cable issure tween battery and starter, may just be terminals. If small wire not hot when held in crank position, now you MAY have a switch issue, and you need to check wire at switch.
One step at a time, first it has to crank consistantly.
Keith

[spence]

Thanks Keith, great advice. I wish I had time to check this myself. The shop the neighbor recommended, is a friend of hers, and she somewhat offered to pay for the basic repairs. Sweet lady. When I get her back, I'll follow the steps mentioned. Then start on the problems areas, and the suggested fixes. Great site, glad to be a part of it. My Spider is my Ducati replacement.

[majicwrench]

Spence,
Your gonna have fun with your 72, that is the BEST year for Spiders
Shops, this is a touchy subject. I have been a professional mechanic for 30+ years, and have seen it all. Most shops, unfortunately, leave something to be desired. A few are downright thieves, but that is rare. Most shops love to sell parts, needed or not. Many shops have one, or two, competent, professional techs, and often many "techs" that are NOT competent or professional, so you play Russian Rulette with your car. Carbs make it even tougher nowdays, very few of us old guys around that grew up with carbs. Please keep us informed at to their recommended repairs.
I would not worry about changing all the fluids at this point, really no need. Same with the fuel, a few months is not enough to turn it rotten. Pull gas cap, smell, should smell like fuel, not varnish.
Keith

[spence]

This shop is a regional chain. A tire shop by the name of Gateway Tire. My step father's customer owns some in Mississippi.
The guy pointed out that he couldn't get parts locally. I said we can get them all day long on the net. He just looked at me.
I'm afraid of him charging extra on parts that I can get myself. I'm ok for paying fair labor, I can get my own parts. Just do the correct job. If he can't, then let me know, I will find someone else who can. I'm searching for specialist in my area who are familiar with the Fiat.

[spence]

Haven't heard from the shop this early. But I did a little research, found a couple of local import guys, one whom use to work on Fiats. He wasn't a very optimistic person, says I should have called before buying. The second, little more upbeat. Said they're not horrible cars, just quirky. I like his attitude better. Ask was it to be my daily driver, I replied yes. He said get your tools.
So from what I gather, there's electrical issues with the car, most that can be remedied?
The design seems simple enough, parts are available, you guys are here. I see it being a beautiful thing in the end.

[rlux4]

You'll find a lot of prejudice against these cars from mechanics. I couldn't find anyone in my area who would work on my car, so I decided to learn how to do everything myself, with a ton of help from forum members here. For hands on help with the things I'd never done before (cam timing) I am fortunate that Ventura Ace is close by and is one of those guys who is always willing to help out. After sorting out a few little FI issues at first I've put 20,000 miles on my car in three years and except for a leaky gasket on the heater pipe connection on the water pump it's absolutely dependable. I think this is the usual case, not the exception. Our cars got a bad rep early on most likely because they didn't get good dealer service back in the day.
That said, sure, you'll need tools, you'd need tools to do any work you planned on doing yourself. Also at least a couple of different manuals. What you'll find is they are easy to work on. (Maybe except for pulling the starter.)
A lot of the electrical issues stem from poor grounds, or too much accessory power going through the ignition switch. For these issues find and clean your grounds, and then do the "brown wire surgery". Brown wire surgery is explained here:
http://flumichigan.italiancarclub.com/T ... urgery.pdf
Keep the faith,
Ron

[spence]

Thanks Ron. I think old Fiat guy had been sippin' on some Hater-Aid this morning. I'm keeping the faith.
Should hear back from the shop soon. I'm off Wed, will be going through, and inspecting the suggested areas. You guys are very helpful.

[spence]

PS: The battery wasn't originally located in the trunk was it? Just read the Brown Wire tut on the link provided, mentions the green battery cable in the trunk? My battery is under the hood, pass side. Forgive me if this question seems dense.

[majicwrench]

Your 72 had battery under hood.
As professional mechanic, I often turn down quirky cars too. I REPAIR cars, not restore cars. A lot of old, odd stuff, once you get started, seems like there is no stopping. I want repair jobs that I can make a buck on, give the customer quick turnaround, and be able to assure the customer that car is safe and dependable when it leaves shop. That said, Fiats are just cars, nuts, bolts, wires, etc just like all the others, and they are plenty dependable. I worked on a ton of em back in the late '70s in the shop, probably timing belts/bent valves more than anything else.
Keith

[spence]

Bad news. The cams are chewed up, oil was full of metal. Mechanic saw copper in the oil, so he's assuming the bottom end is done too. He said the oil was very thin, so most likely not 20/50, he mentioned it looked terrible and smelled just as bad. The engine has been painted, so it's been out of the car at some point. After getting the car primed, it's running, but wont go over 2500 RPM's, 45mph. The ignition was loose, he got that sorted, so it fires right up. I never even got to drive it, was dropped off running, and hasn't ran since. Emailed the girl, see what happens. May be headed to small claims court. Just at a loss...

So I found a used motor for $300, awaiting to hear back what condition it's in. It's a 73', will it fit? Any modifications need to be made?

[majicwrench]

Not so sure about all this.....
Is the engine horribly noisey?? if not, cams and bottom end probably fine, or at least functional. And bottom end bearings could be terrible and car would still go over 45mph, hammering all the way.
Cams chewed up...as in what?? Horrible clacking noises?? .250 inch clearance?? Cams did not self destruct between time car was dropped off and your lunch hour.
No suprise engine has been out on a 38yr old car, that is no biggie.

I'm not saying that the engine is in wonderful condition, I obviously haven't seen it, but methinks you should find a mechanic who can make it run properly, then evaluate the condition of the engine.
Keith