Engine miss diag, never ending story

[SLOSpider]

just when I got 200 miles of driving the Spider under my belt she had an intermittent miss that seemed to be something floating around in the carb bowl plugging the jets. Upon removing the carb top I found nothing. She would sometime buck on cruise and accell and then clear up other times. Cruising down the freeway it would have a hicup every now and then. So tonight I decided to run some diagnostics.
First I did a compression check:
#1 120 ok
#2 120 ok
#3 120 ok
#4 75 oh no

I put a bit of oil in the #4 cylinder and retested 75 lbs, oh no. I rigged up my valve air holder tool and set the compressor to 25 psi and hissing from #3 and intake. I think the hissing from #3 is the intake is propably open a bit on its lobe but I seemed to have found a bad intake valve on #4 cylinder, darn it! It is on top dead center so I know thats not an issue. Out with the new coolant, oil, timing belt and pull the bleeping head off. I guess I better take it off Craigs list till I get this sorted out.

If anyone has a decent used head to bolt on I am willing to hear your price.

[narfire]

If its a 2L, I have one downstairs.

[SLOSpider]

Thanks Narfire but alas its an 1800, my luck with this car

[narfire]

PM sent

[SLOSpider]

Well 30 minutes of work and the Head is off. Looks like something was in #4 before and not sure if it worked itself out or head was off before. Only valve leakage I have is #4 and both intake and exhaust are seeping, the rest had no seepage. It could use a surface and maybe just a light valve grind to freshen her up.

Now I am contemplating just removing the short block to replace the rear main seal, oil pan gasket and front trans seal. I am sure with my luck in this car I should just oder a new clutch while Iam at it. So who votes to pull the short block?

[narfire]

Were you trying to sell this car?
If you were keeping it,I'd do what you mentioned and change the rings,and bearings. Kinda freshen the whole engine.
If it's for sale,think you mentioned Craigslist, I dunno,perhaps just get that valve to seat and let the buyer know what you did and they can make a decision as to what to do with the engine. Perhaps it'l run just fine.
I believe you could invest some loot in parts and time and a buyer might just say thanks but not really be too concerned about recognizing the increased value and time you have put in.
Chris

[majicwrench]

Well, you could just keep going...rebuild the trans while there, new radiator, alternator, starter....then think how easy it would be to change all the front end parts while the engine is out............... Gotta admit, I don't understand that kind of logic. Fix what is broken, if there is something wrong with #4 cylinder, find it and fix it.
What is that in the #4 plug hole??
Back to your initial post, low compression is almost never intermittent. If miss was coming and going, is not a compression issue causing it.
Keith

[SLOSpider]

Well keith I already replaced the entire front end including shock towers, radiator, all the hoses, tbelt, front seals, waterpump, and many more parts. It was all needing to be replaced and if you wait til its broke then you might not like what happens when something does give. Its always better to do the job right so your only in there once. I have it ready to pull to replace the leaking rear seal, oil pan gasket and maybe new clutch and oil pump. The hardest part of these cars is the STUPID starter mounting bolts!!!

Low compression can cause an intermittent miss if the low compression is do to valve leakage. In this case the valves would not seat fully 100% of the time causing the missfire. I had a valve guide come loose once causing the same type symptoms and loose valve seats will also cause a intermittent hesitation. If low compression is do to broken or bad rings then no, you would have it all the time.

The thing in the spark plug hole is the adapter to install air pressure into the cylinder. I used it this time as a leak down test. I original bought it to change the valve springs in my Mustang without removing the heads.

Well the head is getting surfaced and valves grind and freshened up and should be ready next week. Engine will be out tomorrow night then I can check the clutch and oil pump. Im sure they need it as I have not found anything on this car that didnt need replaced.

[So Cal Mark]

good choice, but I'd consider replacing the piston rings. I noticed the pistons are clean around the outside edge. Usually that means some blowby past the rings. Did your leak down test show leakage into the crankcase?

[SLOSpider]

To be honest mark Im not sure as once I verified the intake I quit. I too saw the clean tops on the intake side and took it as that is the fuel inlet so made sense it would be cleaner. I would say that if I get std. rings I should hone the cylinders with the drill and stone but then Im sure the rod brgs should be changed once I take the caps off.... Man this car is diming me to death

[SLOSpider]

On another note what I thought was the front pan still leaking was found oil coming from Aux shaft seal. I just replaced the gasket and seal and shaft was cleaned, Now the front pulley will have to come back off to see whats up with that seal.....

[majicwrench]

They will dime you to death if you let them, and you are doing this to yourself.
BTW most modern ring manufacture's don't recommend honing cylinders any longer. EDIT>>> did a quick look and Hastings still recommeds honing. Will keep it in mind and try to find the info on not honing. I get a lot of proffesional bulletins etc, so who knows where I saw it.... the last couple engines I have rebuilt without boring I did not hone cylinders and had good results. <<<<<
And I'll stick to my guns, low compression is not going to be intermittent except in some sort of bizarre case.
But have fun fixing it up, these things are a hoot!

[ClarkTheShark]

i have an 1800 head that came off a lancia beta... it outta bolt right on.

[SLOSpider]

Thanks for the replies gents and I appreciate the ideas and help. It would save me from buying a hone if I can just install some new rings! I got her out and tore down a bit. First I pulled the clutch and seems pretty good but good be better, I think it will go back in and when I or the new owner wants to fix 4th gear pop out and replace some noisy bearings they can do a clutch then.

Put it on a stand and pulled the pan, hey it rymes Didnt like the sluge build up in the pan. I have changed oil twice in this car within 200 miles do to the dirty oil that was in there. Well the bottom of the dented pan that would not drain out had alot of crud in there but not metal with the old magnet test. Pulled #4 rod bearing and didnt look so hot, pits so I pulled off # 3 and same. Was scared to pull off main but did and its bearings look good. Crank seems ok and good thing it harder than the bearings. Popped # 4 piston out and the oil rings have seen better days. I think the last owners of this car need a piston thrown thru their front window so they can see why its important to change your oil!

So My list grows
Rod bearings
Rings
Rear main seal
Another Aux shaft seal and may need new shaft as it does have some seal wear, Might try to not put it on so far New shaft?
Oil pump, gears looked a bit won and pitted
Oil Pan, too creased and cant get in there to hammer out
New pan gasket, the one in my kit bust be for a 2000 as it has a spot that flares out...midwest getting an email....
Try and find correct short breather hose as the NEW replacement one was a joke and looks pinched off trying to get it to fit!

Then back in and see if I can drive it more than 200 miles this time

As far as the head goes Im still waiting for a call to see if they want me to replace guides and whatever else they can upsell me on...yada yada. I hope its a grind and surface and it will be about $170.00

Wouldnt be a post without pics!



rods:

mains

rod

[SLOSpider]

This is the better looking hose but have to pay as much for shipping !!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 1266wt_913