Clutch Cable issues - help please?

Lincoln M · Post by **Lincoln M** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:26 pm

Hi there,
I'm another new user to these forums.

Thanks, in advance for your help on this issue. I'll try to be brief

I have a 81 spider 2000 that has an older engine/tranny in it. Not sure the year but it is a carb with points ignition (not fuel injected).

I drove the car for a few months last summer, and as time went on, the cluth became stiffer than usual, and started sticking on the floor. The slightest pull back with my toe released it.

I've read this may be an issue with the pressure plate springs wearing out and not returning with enough force.

I've since pulled the clutch cable and lubed it properly. And noticed a few things...

While disengaging the cable from the transmission, I noticed i could move the lever (that the cable attaches to) quite easily with my hand up to the point I think it engages the pressure plate. I could move it well over an inch.

I'm going to try adjusting the cable so there is mush less play before engagement and see if that engages enough spring pressure to return the clutch pedal.

I also noticed while the cable was disengaged that the spring on the pedal itself inside the car springs the pedal both all the way up, or once you pass the middle point, it throws the pedal all the way to the floor. I found this quite bizzare. I thought the spring on the pedal would have helped keep the pedal up (like the brake pedal return spring)... not spring it down.

Any insight would be apprecited. Next step if adjustment doesn't work is to hand it over to a "fiat mechanic".

Cheers!
Lincoln

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:39 pm

some things you need to check into; an overly high pedal effort can crack the firewall where the cable grommet goes, if yours is cracked you'll need to reinforce the firewall. The pedal can also crack and bend just below the hook that engages the cable. The hook then bends off to the side and will break the end off of the cable. If the pedal is cracked or bent, you'll need to remove it and repair it. With the cable disconnected, make sure the inner sheath slides easily in the outer housing, if it doesn't it may be frayed and that will cause the high pedal effort.
Now that you know the clutch arm moves thru the freeplay area with the cable disconnected, make sure it slides with no effort. If it doesn't, the pivot and/or bearing retainer needs to be cleaned, lubed or repaired.
If all of those things check out and you still have high pedal effort, the spring in the pressure plate is going bad and that means clutch replacement.
When you reinstall the cable, adjust it so there is about 1/4" play before the arm and release bearing touch the pressure plate. That should translate to about an inch of free play at the pedal

Lincoln M · Post by **Lincoln M** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:55 am

Thanks for the info, Mark.

I went back at it last night and sure enough all I needed to do was adjust it at the tranny end. I think I ended up with a bit more play than you suggest, but no more than 1/2 inch of play at the pressure plate lever. I didn't know how much to leave and didn't want to over do it. I'll readjust at some point to the specs you mention now that I know what they should be.

When the cable was dissconnected I inspected all movment as I thought it was binding.

Lubed it up with chain lube and checked all motion and everything seemed fine.

Got it all back together and she's working great!

Ran right out and re-insured it of course, right to the car wash... then drove around aimlessley for an hour or so

I have another issue with my carb (I think) but I'll start a separate thread on that one.

Thanks again for the help!

Lincoln

noneedforanintroduction · Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:04 pm

replace your ground wire first.

Your clutch cable is serving as the ground wire, is heating up, and is seizing itself in the housing.

(been there, done that)

mvizzina · Post by **mvizzina** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:42 pm

Hello noneedforanintroduction,
Could you please explain further as to what you mean about the clutch cable acting as a ground, heating up and seizing? What ground wire am I supposed to check. Please explain further. Thanks.

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:00 am

there is a ground wire under the left side, that attaches from the bellhousing to the floor. But, that is only on the cars with the battery in the back

Mad-Machine · Post by **Mad-Machine** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:10 am

which his car should have. Basically, if the ground wire has too high a resistance or breaks, the car will start using the clutch cable as the main engine/transmission ground. This will cause small arc welds along the path of the cable and eventually either weaken it till it brakes, bind it to the housing till it breaks, or just cause a build up on the cable till it starts binding in the housing and breaks.

As noted above, the firewall metal is weak and not reinforced where the clutch cable goes through, if the effort to move the cable is too much, you can pull the support right through the firewall as it cracks easily.

Jim DeShon · Post by **Jim DeShon** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:02 pm

With out a doubt, Fiat has the "cheezyist" if that is a word, clutch linkage on the planet ! I am looking into converting mine to a hydralic clutch. Has anyone else done this ? If so, what components did you use ? Should not be too hard with the engine out. ...J.D.

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:47 pm

the beauty is in its' simplicity, the ugliness is in how fragile the parts are

Mad-Machine · Post by **Mad-Machine** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:20 pm

well, considering how light these cars were before they added all the crash worthiness junk to them (which do not do a thing to protect the car) fragility is part of being light. Pre-74 spiders did come in under a ton.

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:22 pm

I haven't seen weight figures for early cars, under a ton would put them in the X1/9 class. Hard to believe

mdrburchette · Post by **mdrburchette** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:40 am

You're close Arthur. According to the factory manuals, the weights are:

1970 (1438) 2030 lbs
1971-72 (1608) 2127 lbs
1973 (1596) 2160 lbs

This includes all fluids (full gas tank), spare tire and tools.
How much do the big bumper cars weigh?

Mad-Machine · Post by **Mad-Machine** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:39 am

according to the books.. the CS1 weighs in at 2361. amazing what the big bumper and the associated hardware can add to a car.

the X 1/9 comes in at 1940 pounds... so they are not that different in the beginning.. but towards the end, the spider got a little portly

Jim DeShon · Post by **Jim DeShon** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:39 pm

I'll risk adding a couple of pounds to make the clutch reliable.

Love these cars but...there are a couple of things that just have to go in my book. ...J.D.

mvizzina · Post by **mvizzina** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:44 am

I pulled the clutch cable out and lubed it up. I had it replaced a couple of years ago along with my clutch and other related stuff so it was in good shape.

It's hard to really get a good look at the tangs on my clutch pedal but I think they are bent so I'm going to look for a replacement and replace that later.

I reinstalled the clutch cable and adjusted the travel and it feels good. I didn't drive it for a long time though. My clutch always feels worse the longer I drive which is why the faulty ground that you mentioned rang a bell with me. I'm assuming that the heating up of the cable because of the faulty ground is what may be causing my poor clutch feel.

I took a look at the ground wire and it looked fine on the bellhousing end but on the floor end it looked pretty crusty and limp. I'm going to replace it and see if it makes a difference.

I wonder if anyone has ever seen a replacement part for that wire?... or am I going to need to just match the gauge and fabricate a new one myself? Any advice? Thanks.