brake trouble please advise

[manoa matt]

I've tried pressure bleeders, and vacuum bleeders. None work as good as an assistant and their foot.

Pressure bleeders are a mess if you fill the pressure bleeder with fluid, so most just fill the master cylinder reservoirs and use air pressure, but getting a good seal on the reservoir is always a problem. Too much pressure and you ruin the master cylinder seals.

Vacuum bleeders almost always pull air past the bleed screw threads, regardless of how much teflon tape is wrapped around it. Again too much vacuum and you ruin the master cylinder seals.

Do it with your foot and save $50

[84pininfarinablack]

im not sure how good 1000 brake pumps is for the master cylinder either. or its seals.
the motive device is made for fiat and i cant imagine it not fitting.. that would be a bummer

so you think just keep pressing the brakes down and one day itll happen?

[ventura ace]

You can 'bench bleed' with the MC in the car. Bench bleeding just means getting the air out of the MC, and there are lots of different tricks for this. Autoparts stores should sell a bench bleed kit to make it easy. You disconnect the brake line, and thread in a little nipple, then run a clear plastic line (comes in the kit) from the nipple back to your brake reservoir, such that the end of the tubing is submerged under the fluid level in the brake reservoir. Then start pumping, and you'll see air bubbles exiting the plastic tubing. When you release the brake pedal, some air will go back in the MC, but it will be sucking brake fluid from the reservoir, as opposed to sucking air from a big air bubble in your brake line. Do this several times with long pedal strokes until you don't see any more air exiting the clear tubing. Make sure that you keep the brake reservoir full enough so that the tubing is always under the fluid level, or else you will suck air back into the MC again. Since you have connections for the front brakes, you should bench bleed both of them at the same time (the kit should have 2 sets of nipples and plastic tubing).

After the MC is free of air, then connect it back to your brake lines and proceed with bleeding the slave calipers. It will take several pumps to chase the air out of your longer lines. For each pump, make sure you have an assistant that will close the bleeder screw before you let up on the brake pedal, the loosen the bleeder screw again as the pedal is pumped again.

I've also 'bench bled by just putting my finger tip over the MC fitting, and letting the fluid out when the pedal is pumped (put a container underneath to catch the fluid), then put your fingertip over the fitting before your assistant lets the pedal back up. After numerous pumps, the air will all be chased out.

You can use that fancy equipment that pressurizes from the top or sucks from the bottom, but you may end up with a big mess if you aren't careful.

Get the MC bled, and you should be fine. This is the same with any brake system, and nothing different or special about our Fiats.

Alvon

[wachuko]

Use the method your are most comfortable with. In my case, I put the brake fluid in the motive bleeder, pressurize it to 20lbs and open the nipple to bleed and I am done in a very short time without the need to pump the brake pedal, scream at my helper, any spills or mess, etc...

I have used it with excellent results in Porsche, BMW, and a friend's Pontiac Firebird. I do not have experience using it in the FIAT, not yet... I will in a few days when I bleed the whole system in my runner.

You are welcome to borrow it. I will be working in my car all day tomorrow, just stop by if you want to give it a try.

[84pininfarinablack]

thanks Ventura... when you say Mc fitting which fitting do you mean? Do you mean remove a brake line and put finger over that hole ? Or one of the two plastic nipples?

I've also 'bench bled by just putting my finger tip over the MC fitting, and letting the fluid out when the pedal is pumped (put a container underneath to catch the fluid), then put your fingertip over the fitting before your assistant lets the pedal back up. After numerous pumps, the air will all be chased out.

[MNspiderman]

James, you should have called me. I have a Motive Bleeder that would do the trick. Just stop by to pick it up.



It pushes the brake fluid through the system. One man job with no sore hands afterward...

Thats what I have, I was going to suggest it too.

[ventura ace]

thanks Ventura... when you say Mc fitting which fitting do you mean? Do you mean remove a brake line and put finger over that hole ? Or one of the two plastic nipples?

Remove a brake line. The plastic nipples should be connected to your brake reservoir, with plenty of brake fluid in the reservoir so that you won't suck in air.

Or, you could use the pressure bleeder that the other guys are suggesting, but make sure that your lines are tight between the reservoir and the MC. If one should blow off, you'll have brake fluid everywhere.

Alvon

[manoa matt]

The only way the pressure bleeders are Fiat specific is via the cap that screws onto the master cylinder reservoir. You can easily make one from a $5 pump garden sprayer, a length of clear tubing, and a spare reservoir cap. http://faculty.ccp.edu/faculty/dreed/ca ... /index.htm This pressure bleeder will work the same as a commercially available one...not good.

Most manufacturers recommend 10-15 psi, 20 may be too much.

If you need to pump "1000 times" then you got other problems. The master cylinder as installed on the car tilts upward at an angle and can get a bubble trapped in the end. If you jack up the rear of the car the bubble will travel backwards and out one of the hard lines. Tapping it with a rubber mallet lightly can get the bubble to move.

All you really need to do is: attach a hose to the closed bleeder screw and let the hose hang in a jar. Pump the brake pedal 3 times to build pressure, loosen the bleeder and watch the fluid flow out. When is slows down, close the bleeder screw, pump the brake 3 times to build pressure and repeat. You don't even need an assistant and no need to yell. The solution is in line with Occam's razor.

[spiderrey]

I bought one of the motive bleeders to bleed out my x. works very easily. I went to 15 lbs no prolem. My son borrowed it recently for his 850 and was very happy. The only way to go if no ones around. I also pumped the pedal a few times during the process to move around any trapped air. I bought it with an extra fitting to fit other cars.

[84pininfarinablack]

thank you for all the input. pressing the brakes with caliper bleeder closed and then opening it doesnt work.
all my best angles arent working.. my neighbors think im nuts.

so today im going to bench bleed the MC the best I can... move that acorn nut out a turn. reinstall. I may also pour some brake fluid into the brake lines manually prior to putting the lines back onto the MC. Anyone who has drained a waterbed knows about that natural syphon may help here also. if all fails then its off to the motive bleeder. and then my local shop let them deal with this headache.

My first car was a 75 rabbit in 1986 I ripped out the interior on day one and cut my rusty brake lines. ended up rebuilding 2 wheels and going with new line... bleed the brakes and it just shot out of the hole perfectly like common sense would say it should.. These metal brake hoses should connect to the side or bottom of the MC. and there should be an MC bleeder valve on top of it. Wouldnt that be nice? I guess they didnt think of this or had some better reasoning.

[wachuko]

Got brakes?

[84pininfarinablack]

no brakes yet. I ordered the motive bleeder from IAP I figured it would be nice to have. Hopefully itll work.. thank you for your kind offer though wachuko. hopefully ill be good in a day or two but god only knows. Depends on how many leaks i find I suppose. This car feels so good on the road it will be awesome to have it braking right. I just replaced tie rod joints 4 of them and im wondering if i got the alignment right. If not I know how to fix it I think. only a test drive will tell... and then off to shocks.. I should have it running like a new car soon. Im running out of stuff to replace.

[wachuko]

no brakes yet. I ordered the motive bleeder from IAP I figured it would be nice to have. Hopefully itll work.. thank you for your kind offer though wachuko. hopefully ill be good in a day or two but god only knows. Depends on how many leaks i find I suppose. This car feels so good on the road it will be awesome to have it braking right. I just replaced tie rod joints 4 of them and im wondering if i got the alignment right. If not I know how to fix it I think. only a test drive will tell... and then off to shocks.. I should have it running like a new car soon. Im running out of stuff to replace.

You will ask yourself how you could have lived without one... just a suggestion, when you get it, and if you plan on using it with different adapters. This mod works great:



Allows you to swap adapters easily. Just some air compression adapters and you are done.

[84pininfarinablack]

motive bleeder.. lol .. i should of taken the 80 bucks to the dog track.
I did see some bubbles come up the hose... then no more bubbles. and no fluid out the front right ...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

sorry guys had to let that out. How long does the motive bleeder take to do its job ? do you i leave it pressurized for hours ? after about 15 minutes i gave up as rain was coming. My cap is leaky unless screwed on just perfectly. and then it was fine and then leaking again.. jeeeeeeeezeeeeeee what a life..

i did pump the pedal for a while and saw some little foamy looking bubbles.. about as small as bubbles can come.. after a few pumps and then stopping causes one larger bubble to come up.. I guess this was encouraging... but just a little.

half an hour more struggle and off to the shop it goes.. I honestly dont see what they will do differently.
maybe there is a higher level of pumping equipment.

[84pininfarinablack]

I just posted this in the automotive section on craigslist.. Ill bet i get some good offers ill share the results.

I have a 1984 Fiat Spider. I need a mechanic to install 4 shocks (have them already) timing belt. (have already)
and bleed my brakes. I installed new master cylinder. rebuilt caliper. Front left bleeds but i cannot get the front right to bleed after hours of pumping.. Im sick of pumping the brakes i need professional help. I tried Advance auto pump / motive pressure bleeder. I did not bench bleed the Master cylinder prior to installation and theres gotta be air bubbles in there. I was all motivated to do it myself but 4 weekends of brakes and no luck and im done for a while need some help. Glad to pay to have it done. Please email me any offers or quote if you can. Would like it done this week.