Oil Recommendation

[pope]

http://blog.motorists.org/warning-if-yo ... -carefully
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... mmary.html
http://www.fordmuscle.com/blog/use-the- ... cams/11295
http://www.mgtoronto.com/pdf/Tech/Oil.pdf

[mbouse]

wow Pope. not only do you have a cool looking mom, but you are a scholar too? who knew? mom must be proud.

i gotta look and see if my Spider oil has zinc in it now!

[maytag]

http://blog.motorists.org/warning-if-yo ... -carefully
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... mmary.html
http://www.fordmuscle.com/blog/use-the- ... cams/11295
http://www.mgtoronto.com/pdf/Tech/Oil.pdf

pope.... I'm surprised at you!

you're not usually one to be taken-in by the hoopla! ESPECIALLY when there are VERY, VERY smart engineers who have refuted this. Not just backyard hacks, mind you.... real engineers! And we all know how you revere engineers!

So, further (and current) research has shown a couple of things to be true:
#1: ONLY those motor oils classified by the EPA as "energy / fuel conserving oils & additives" have been forced into lowering their ZINC & other phospates. Most other oils have retained at a minimum 1000ppm of ZDDP's (not always Zinc. Sometimes Manganese, or other). And nearly EVERY (maybe EVERY) "extended mileage" formula will still have the ZDDP's.

#2: MANY, MANY things do more harm to your flat-tappet cams (and other valve-train components) than low ZDDP lubricants. for instance: NOT CHANGING YOUR OIL!! Using the wrong weight. Cold temperatures. And I'm sure somewhere on the list we could find something about used lawnmower oil.

So... I'm gonna go back to my popcorn now.

[Foster48x]

Another Oil thread! Oh my...... 2 pages, I fear I may already be too late!

NEW CONTENT POSTED HERE!!! HURRY, GO!!! http://www.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8061

Now get out of here before I turn the hose on all of you!!!

[Ken]

maby im missing something but :Oils that carry the API Certification Mark are energy conserving and are suitable for all previous model years.

[mbouse]

maby im missing something but .

ken, you're not missing anything... it's not about oil anymore. it's about a family feud. step AWAYyy from the table..

[Ken]

Well I guess I learned something today, I got curious and called Delta Cam, I just picked up my camshafts from them the other day, I got the number off the bill and at the top of the bill was a warning, which I didn’t read, about the new oil not being good enough to break in a new camshaft and to inquire from them about using ZZD Plus for the break in period but if you are still using a catalytic converter you are caught in a catch 22.
It all goes to say, at the end of the day if I haven’t learned something or pissed someone off my day was a failure

[mbouse]

har har har... those are your options? learn or tork someone off? if that were the case, everyday is a blue ribbon day for me. does pissing off the same person every day count?

what if you took the cat out for the break in period? you know that cat-eliminator pipes exist for three and four bolt flange systems...would that get you out of Catch 22?? http://www.fiatparts.com

[So Cal Mark]

if you're still unconvinced about the need for zinc, search the threads for one by Ventura Ace that shows his valve shims eroded through the hardened surface from a combination of no-zinc and high valve spring pressure.
If you still want to use no-zinc oil, I have Cam-Shield in stock

[baltobernie]

I use either 15-40 or 20-50.

I will not get sucked into another oil thread
I will not get sucked into another oil thread

Engine designers choose oil pump characteristics, sump and baffle size, galley locations, passage dimensions, etc. using oil viscosity data. Using the wrong viscosity motor oil changes the amount of oil delivered to various locations within your engine, and this will cause damage.

The Spider engine was designed for 10W-30 motor oil. So use this unless you are in Nome or Nicaragua.

Regarding zinc and phosphorus, Fiat owners often used diesel-grade oil, which had earlier levels of these lubricants. But the current diesel oils have reduced these, because they too now have catalysts. The American Petroleum Institute claims that API SM-grade oil has been tested to provide adequate lubrication to flat-tappet engines. They are now saying (for the first time) that SM oil is backwards-compatible with all previous API designations. Their earlier position was that SG was incompatible with SF-and-earlier.

So why don't the majors sell SD-SF oil? Shirley there are plenty of classic autos out there that should be a great market. The API is the only certification agency recognized in the USA. They license the use of their "donut" and "gear" symbol on the containers to refiners, and stipulate that their logos cannot be used on anything other than the current API spec gasoline or diesel oils. Plus, back in the nineties, while the general public still had a lot of flat-tappet vehicles, the industry tried to market "old" and "new" spec oil, with disastrous results. Owners of these vehicles were suffering engine damage, and began using SF in their new cars, figuring that the SF was better for their engines than the SG. They were right, but the SF ruined the new oxygen sensors and catalysts. The owners didn't care, 'cause these items were warrantied for 100k, but the auto manufacturers sure did care, and the older oil quickly disappeared. GM for one briefly marketed a dealer-installed additive for SG oil in older cars, but no longer.

If you're going to use modern motor oil, use SM and not SG - SL spec.

I use this, and I'm trying to get IAP to stock it:
http://www.hicksoils.com/pdfs/10-13-09/ ... %20PDS.pdf

[mbouse]

butcha doesn't hafta call me Shirley !!

[pope]

Hey Bernie, where did the 10W-30 number come from? I have a Fiat factory shop manual and a Brookline manual and both specify only 15W-40 as the multi-grade oil.
I like that Hicks oil.

[knightdalejb]

Maytag, you mentioned Royal Purple... do you notice that big of a difference for the price? if just using it in a street car, not racing - is it worth it?? I've seen some of the shows talk about it, but also saw the prices and never had people to ask that knew so much about oil....

[maytag]

Maytag, you mentioned Royal Purple... do you notice that big of a difference for the price? if just using it in a street car, not racing - is it worth it?? I've seen some of the shows talk about it, but also saw the prices and never had people to ask that knew so much about oil....

That all depends on how much of it you're buying, and what you're comparing it to.
If you're already talking full synthetics, at $5/qt, then $8/qt can be rationalized.

For me, the Redline is a better product than the Royal Purple, but their product range is not as broad, and it's more difficult to find. We tested the Redline on the dyno (on one of my old Ducati racebikes) and we found 3 HP. Which on a racebike is everyuthing! but in a street-car? Nah. not so much.

I guess I feel like I owe something for all that free oil they threw at me during the racing days.

[knightdalejb]

sorry, guess i was pretty vague...a bad habit of mine.

i meant synthetics versus real oil. not just performance , but engine wear and tear and making your car (or my truck) last longer... run smoother... cooler....better milage... is there really a difference for the average guy driving an average car?