Hi from Kentucky.

[Zmatt]

Hi all, after weeks of research and digging I stumbled upon this site accidentally the other day while doing research. From the looks of things, this is the most active and best put together forum I have seen that is dedicated to 124s.

A bit about my car,

It's a red '74. Was my father's for most of the 70's and 80's and has been sitting in a barn unmolested for 20 years now. I am planning on doing a resto-mod to it. Not only do I want to get it back to it's glory days, but I want to do a thing or two about that terrible 0-60 time and the skidpad numbers. I have a thing for odd and unique cars and this little "poor man's ferrari" seems perfect.

The car has upgraded konis all around. They were installed before it was put into storage. I'm guessing they should still be every bit as good since they aren't the ting that normally goes bad. I ordered a 1.8L motor from a later model for a bit more oomph, headroom and to speed up the process. The stock motor needs a rebuild and my plans are to have it built over the next 2 or 3 years to have a healthy boost in power. For the time being I'm focusing on rebuilding it to stock trim and then working form there. The clutch and pressure plate need to be replaced, new bushing all around, everything rubber needs replacing, new pads rotors etc, and new pirellis.

I have a $2400 budget right now to get it on the road. So far $275 was spent on a working motor (imo a deal, but I'm used to more expensive modern engines). I gave it a once over and the body looks solid, no visible rust (old man said it has an anti rust coating) and the top and leather all look dirty, but in good shape.

I come as a humble n00b in the world of fiats knowing nothing about these old cars or the system that make them go. Hopefully I can learn a lot form you guys and soon enough can have a turbocharged and electronically injected fiat of my own that eats unsuspecting sports cars for breakfast.

[drenthe]

Welcome from South Carolina.

[azygoustoyou]

Welcome to the site. When you run into problems. This is the site with plenty of knowledgeable people to help you out.

[Zmatt]

Thanks for the replies. Do you guys know a good place to find information on converting an engine to FI and making a turbo setup?

[pope]

We have a rule here that you have to have the car working and driving before we tell about future additions.

Just kiddin, but it really is a good idea to just get the car to a regular driving state first, as too many changes at one time caused a lack of ambition down the line. Then we see it up for sale for lack of interest, without ever having driven it.

[rlux4]

Hi, welcome to the forum. You've definitely stumbled onto a great site, plenty of knowledgeable and helpful folks here.
Ron

[mdrburchette]

Welcome from North Carolina. There's a lot you can do with the stock setup to get a roaring little 4 cylinder. Porting and polishing the head, decking the block, desmogging and lightening components are a few things to help. You have one of the best year models as far as stock power with the 1756 engine and 34DMSA carb. I drove a friend's in VA Beach last year and was amazed at how awesome his performed. We just built a 1608 using the stock pistons and rods, lightened flywheel, shaved head, decked block, big cams, etc with a 2bbl Holley and it burned rubber in 1st easy. It probably would've burned rubber in 2nd, but 2nd gave up the ghost on our test drive. You might also want to consider dual carbs. They make an awesome sound as well as great power.

[Zmatt]

Welcome from North Carolina. There's a lot you can do with the stock setup to get a roaring little 4 cylinder. Porting and polishing the head, decking the block, desmogging and lightening components are a few things to help. You have one of the best year models as far as stock power with the 1756 engine and 34DMSA carb. I drove a friend's in VA Beach last year and was amazed at how awesome his performed. We just built a 1608 using the stock pistons and rods, lightened flywheel, shaved head, decked block, big cams, etc with a 2bbl Holley and it burned rubber in 1st easy. It probably would've burned rubber in 2nd, but 2nd gave up the ghost on our test drive. You might also want to consider dual carbs. They make an awesome sound as well as great power.

Thanks for your reply, this si what I have been looking for.

It was de-smogged 30 years ago In Kentucky we have 0 emissions testing. If you wanted a carbed rotary engine running with a lead substitute in the fuel you could. A buddy of mine who tunes Toyotas told me that a turbo carb engine would sound practically evil, but I understand it's not exactly easy to pull off, especially for my DD car. Dad said the carb was upgraded before it was put into storage, maybe a 40mm weber? I don't know about hi comp pistons and rods, I understand they hurt driveability and reliability, good for rally, bad for a to b.

I will say this, my experience with these old engines is very limited and most of what I am saying is advice I have been given or things I have read. I am open to any suggestions on how to make this work. I don't care if it's carb or fi, turbo or na necessarily, just as long as it is reliable, sounds good, and pulls hard.


I don't know how often you guys get this, but when I told my gear head buddies i was restoring this Fiat they screamed to stay away. They said it would be a nightmare and unreliable. Parts would be expensive and it would break down all the time. By all accounts I have heard the 124 was none of these, it's reliable, easy to work on, and a lot of the parts I have looked at look pretty cheap. I think it's ironic that the same people who make fun of Fiats for being unreliable drive American cars, by buddies explorer started falling apart at 90k miles, when the warranty let up. A guy I know had the bed fly off his ranger on the interstate the day he bought it. And don't get me started on the headaches my mom's chrysler has caused.

[mdrburchette]

Oh yeah, most of us have dealt with the skeptics. In any car, you only get out of it what you put in it. If you take care of the car it'll take care of you. Of course, I'm starting to believe this isn't true of some, and that's a shame, but I have been very fortunate with the reliability of my Fiats. They are well advanced for their time, easy to maintain, inexpensive to keep on the road and a blast to drive. The more you wind them up the better they like it. I wouldn't trade any of mine for another car even if I could afford it.

[baltobernie]

I don't know about hi comp pistons and rods, I understand they hurt driveability and reliability, good for rally, bad for a to b.

Compression doesn't noticeably affect driveability. Camshaft grind and cam timing have the most influence (assuming you haven't over-carb'd).

With 110+ HP, these pre-bumper Spiders (<1975) are more than capable of keeping up with modern roadsters like the Gen 1 & 2 Miatas. The Fiat 1.8 can easily see 125 HP with good driveability.http://www.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic ... &sk=t&sd=a

Anything over 140-150 HP would be tough on the OEM drivetrain, IMO. Gearbox synchros are a known weakness with stock 80-102 HP, and there's that rubber guibo to contend with. You'd need deep pockets and a lot of downtime to build and maintain a "giant killer". Automotive technology has made quantum leaps in the last 40 years; even flippin' minivans have 250 HP these days, while achieving the same fuel efficiency as our Spiders.

But here's the best part; 50 mph in a Spider feels like 90 in a modern car. The sounds of a high-compression, carbureted, pre-emissions engine is something very few people get to experience in the 21st century. The staccato wind-up, the chuffing and popping on shifts and decel, and the instantaneous throttle response makes an afternoon drive in a Spider something memorable. Your steering wheel is directly connected to the tires, with nothing in between to diminish the feel of the road. The car is so light and stiff, you turn it as much with the throttle as your hands. Every Spider owner has different tastes, but I personally kept original-sized tires for driving pleasure, not just classic looks. When you get that little "chirp" while changing direction over a bumpy road, or that growl just before the squeal as you reach the limits of adhesion, you are truly experiencing driving pleasure as few today can.

Heck, even on a January Sunday, we had 59 folks at a local pizza parlor to talk about restoring and driving these fantastic automobiles. Can't you just tell it's 40℉ and raining here?

[JDOliver]

Where in KY ? I'm in Paducah. I've already been from stock carb, to better carb, then F.I. Megasquirt, back to carb, and back to F.I. again soon.

I would suggest driving it in stock for few months and working out any issues first. It probably needs a front end and brake rebuilt at the least.

I have been threatening to sell mine for the last year but after running it in a %70 gravel road rally through L.B.L. yesterday I have decided to keep it forever.

Welcome. I been away working on DSM things but I am back now.

[mbouse]

I am all over performance upgrades/modifications. but, before you go as far as stuffing a F.I. in that small bump hooded body, consider a few things...

i know of no F.I. components that would strap easily to that 1756 engine.

swapping to a two litre engine would be the easiest for the F.I. modification, but fitting that engine under your hood creates a whole bunch more issues... too tall. not that it cannot be done, Mr. Putman will be a great one to tap for clues on how to do that...

if you are then persuaded to go with carb'd performance enriching routes... Denise is a great resource.

BTW-one of my favorite phrases.... did not happen unless you got the pictures to prove it. Show us yours, please.

and, welcome!

[Gunsmith]

Welcome to the best site on the net for your project. You will be in good hands here. My sister bought a Saturn when they first came out and when she took it to the shop in Kentucky to get an oil change the Mechanic told her "We don't work on dem foreign jobbies around here, you'll have to take that to Nashville or somewhere." That being said don't take everything those know it alls that have never left their county have to say about Spiders and what they need.

They have road rallies in Land Between the Lakes? That would be way cool and worth a trip for you Carolina drivers! I used to have a Farm in the thriving Metropolis of New Concord Kentucky, that's right by Land Between the Lakes and Tennessee for those of you that still have all of your teeth and are not from there. That area has awesome Fiat roads, run hwy 280 between New Concord and Murray when ever you get a chance, excellent pucker factor in the Fiat. That would be a really cool Fiat event to show up for and root for the members crazy enough to rally their cars on those roads.

Good luck and have fun!

[azygoustoyou]

Hi Zmatt,
Welcome to the site. Once you start cleaning your seats. Try Fast Orange hand cleaner. It has pumice in it. It will clean your seats really good. I have used it and it did wonders. Good luck! Looking forward to some pic's.

[Zmatt]

Where in KY ? I'm in Paducah. I've already been from stock carb, to better carb, then F.I. Megasquirt, back to carb, and back to F.I. again soon.

I would suggest driving it in stock for few months and working out any issues first. It probably needs a front end and brake rebuilt at the least.

I have been threatening to sell mine for the last year but after running it in a %70 gravel road rally through L.B.L. yesterday I have decided to keep it forever.

Welcome. I been away working on DSM things but I am back now.

Lexington. You weren't in town today were you? I saw a red spider and had a double take. I know there is a green one driven by somebody who works for UK.

As for pics guys, the thing is sitting in my grandmother's barn in Wolfe county, which for those of you who don't know is about 2 hours away from here. I forgot my camera last time I was up there but in the next few weeks we are putting it on my unlce's flat bed and driving it down here. I still have to clean out the garage and dust off the tools to be ready for it.

But here's the best part; 50 mph in a Spider feels like 90 in a modern car. The sounds of a high-compression, carbureted, pre-emissions engine is something very few people get to experience in the 21st century. The staccato wind-up, the chuffing and popping on shifts and decel, and the instantaneous throttle response makes an afternoon drive in a Spider something memorable. Your steering wheel is directly connected to the tires, with nothing in between to diminish the feel of the road. The car is so light and stiff, you turn it as much with the throttle as your hands. Every Spider owner has different tastes, but I personally kept original-sized tires for driving pleasure, not just classic looks. When you get that little "chirp" while changing direction over a bumpy road, or that growl just before the squeal as you reach the limits of adhesion, you are truly experiencing driving pleasure as few today can.

That's what i am looking forward too. My dad wont stop talking about the throttle response and the handling. It may not end up being that fast, but the AutoX performance should make up for it. And it has a ton more sex appeal than tuned civics.

Hi Zmatt,
Welcome to the site. Once you start cleaning your seats. Try Fast Orange hand cleaner. It has pumice in it. It will clean your seats really good. I have used it and it did wonders. Good luck! Looking forward to some pic's.

will do!

Welcome to the best site on the net for your project. You will be in good hands here. My sister bought a Saturn when they first came out and when she took it to the shop in Kentucky to get an oil change the Mechanic told her "We don't work on dem foreign jobbies around here, you'll have to take that to Nashville or somewhere." That being said don't take everything those know it alls that have never left their county have to say about Spiders and what they need.

Funny part is one gets to work on race cars in town and the other is a mechanic for the Audi dealership. But I told them that when it's running one ride would erase all doubt in me or the car.

I am all over performance upgrades/modifications. but, before you go as far as stuffing a F.I. in that small bump hooded body, consider a few things...

i know of no F.I. components that would strap easily to that 1756 engine.

swapping to a two litre engine would be the easiest for the F.I. modification, but fitting that engine under your hood creates a whole bunch more issues... too tall. not that it cannot be done, Mr. Putman will be a great one to tap for clues on how to do that...

if you are then persuaded to go with carb'd performance enriching routes... Denise is a great resource.

BTW-one of my favorite phrases.... did not happen unless you got the pictures to prove it. Show us yours, please.

and, welcome!

What about the 1.8? I thought it was a good compromise, that and I couldn't find a 2.0L

You guys are really pushing me to carbs, I'm a little worried tho, because I know nothing about them.