car wont start

[nickc]

Hi all!
Car is an '81 Spider with FI.
Just finished rebuilding the entire front end and now I cant get the car to start! Please help.

Previous to the front end work, car started up everytime (warmer weather).
Nothing on the engine was touched (intentionally) in the rebuild.
Car was not started for about 4 months.

First startup took a while, but car did start. Car ran extremely rough and would not stay on without me feathering the gas pedal. Gas gauge showed empty (no light), so I got 2 gallons gas and poured it into the tank. Same problem.
After repeated attempts, car would no longer start.

Checked power to fuel pump:
At in line fuse near fuse panel, I have nothing on acc; 12 volts on crank.
At fuel pump I have only about 350mv on crank. Both power and ground sides do not seem to be correct.
Applied 12 volts directly with a direct ground - fuel pump runs. Engine will still not start.
Ok, so where does the power come from? I read the FI manual - it talks about the relay set - where is it?

When I applied power diretly to the Fuel pump and grounded directly to the battery, I could hear the fuel pump, but still no start!

Checked for spark at the plugs - looks good.
Took out and cleaned the plugs (dry, with carbon deposit) - no good!
Nick

[nickc]

Well, I finally found the correct component locations for the relays for an '81.
I will now try to use the FI troubleshooting manual provided on this forum.
Nick

[So Cal Mark]

if the plugs are dry, the injectors may not be getting power/ground or they may be stuck shut from fuel turning to varnish.

[rlux4]

If you don't have them yet, Brad Artigue's Fiat Maintenance and Modification ( http://www.artigue.com/?page_id=30 ) and this FI diagnostics booklet supplied by Kelly Dicker over on Mira
( http://www.wcmotors.com/personal/Fiat%2 ... agnostics/ are good to have. There's also this from Thad Kirk;
http://www.angelfire.com/wa2/fits/index.html#ljetguide
It's not likely that something failed coincedently with the work you were doing unless at some point you sparked at the hot starter post, this could fry the dual relay. I'd look and be sure you have a good ground on your chassis at the tranny and that the two injector grounds are clean and tight. They're on the two rear, outboard side hold down bolts for the intake plenum.
If the grounds are good, check and make sure you're getting fuel. I undo the fuel line going to the cold start valve and crank the engine. You should get a good strong spray of fuel. Be careful undoing the line, if you do have fuel, it'll spray a pretty strong squirt. Cover it with a rag when you undo it.
Ron

[pope]

OK,
The ignition controls the fuel pump and the injectors when starting the car. It sends a signal to the dual relay to turn then on.

The fact that you dont have fuel pump power and working injectors leads me to believe, either a faulty ignition or fried dual relay. The pump and injectors work off of separate power sources, but their power does go through the relay.
Make sure the 16amp fuse for the fuel pump is OK.

[nickc]

UPDATE:

Good news: I got the car started!
After tracing the electrical system, I discovered that I did not have any power to the 16 Amp fuel pump fuse. I found the problem in the connector which distributes the power from the (brown) battery power to the fuse. I checked the connector - no rust or corrosion. I guess I must have pulled on the fuse wire enough for it not to make contact.

Bad News: Car runs like crap and wont stay running at idle.
With fuel pump powered, the car started up. Car ran like crap; it was extremely rough and seemed like the mixture was not correct. I had to keep feathering the gas to keep it running. There was a stench of raw fuel and it was blowing black smoke.
I figured this might be all the gas and starting fluid that we injected while tring to start it.

Eventually,the smoke cleared, the engine sounded slightly better, but still running very rough. With the outside temp in the high 30's, I thought I might have a problem with the cold start valve, so I was trying to keep it running long enough to get it warm. After about fifteen minutes, I still could not keep the car running at idle. I, then, increased the idle speed just enough to keep it running.

I pulled the plugs - black with carbon. I cleaned them (again) - no difference.
I tried taking a ride. Car bucked as if it weren't getting even amounts of gas. Restarts intermittently showed a very slow crank (as if the battery were almost dead), then, it would suddenly start. Now, I'm thinking electrical again.

Got too cold (and dark) again, so I had to stop.
I need to get a fuel pressure tester. I also, plan on checking electrical connections at the starter and coil.

Any ideas?
Could the computer have programmed the fuel mixture incrrectly after all the messing arounf I did?
Remember, before, I re-did the front end, the car started and ran perfectly.
Thanks for your help.
Nick

[pope]

NO, it is an analog computer. Meaning it stores no values or curves and only tries to correct the engine to its preset numbers.

[So Cal Mark]

your ecm doesn't have the capability to reprogram. I'd check the pressure regulator to see if it leaks; remove the vacuum hose to it and look for signs of fuel. Also check the air flow meter for sticking and the intake boot for cracks

[red107]

your ecm doesn't have the capability to reprogram. I'd check the pressure regulator to see if it leaks; remove the vacuum hose to it and look for signs of fuel. Also check the air flow meter for sticking and the intake boot for cracks

Mark hit it on the head, I had the same issues several years ago with my 81. On the AFM also check the connector. A loose connector on the AFM caused my car to buck and idle rough. 4 months of sitting isn't that long. My car as sat for several month between deployments.