Still verrrrry frustrated!

[zachmac]

Well another weekend of trying with no start. I replaced the timing belt and replaced the distributor cap, rotor, vacuum advance unit and pickup and now also the coil, plug wires, plugs and ignition control unit (went with one of the newer dry coil setups). I am getting tons of spark out of the coil but I simply cannot get the car to time and run. It will barely run and miss like all get out and stumble and die. Timing via the light is on but jumping all over the place?

I have a professional mechanic friend coming over tomorrow so maybe he will show me the error of my ways? Meanwhile, has anyone ever put the magnet part of the pickup in upsdie down? What was the result? That's about all I can come up with?

I am really at a loss at this point? Car ran fine when I started this "fix". Damn!

[zachmac]

Anyone know why I can't "see" this post when I open the engine section? I see it as the most recent post in the index but when I open the ending section it isn't there? Anything to do with the site being down most of the weekend?

[zachmac]

Weird, my asking (a reply) seems to have made it appear? So, back to the original question. Anyone got any insights?

[kilrwail]

There was a some kind of a problem with the site, which would explain why your message disappeared temporarily. I don't want to insult your intelligence, but are you sure you have the plug wires installed correctly? Distributor properly installed? If it runs but really badly, it sounds like something of this sort.

[zachmac]

No insults taken, I obviously am at wits end here.

I started with a car than ran fine, it would start with a flick of the key, even cold. Clearly timing and all other systems were okay when I began. I however had no idea when the last time the timing belt was changed as I am a new owner of this car and had no records from the PO. So, I replaced the timing belt.

The timing belt replacement was uneventful and I lined up all the marks (crank, both cams and aux shaft) and loosened the tensioner and replaced the belt and tightened the tensioner without moving any of the cams or shafts. The timing marks all still line up after many, many revolutions. So, I think I can eliminate any cam / crank timing problems. It is all where it was when the car ran fine (plus it ran fine ONCE since).

Next I ALSO (bad move) decided to put a new cap and rotor and pickup and vacuum advance on / in the distributor at the same time (the vacuum advance was non-functional). In hindsight , I should have done the belt and THEM moved on but again I am 99.9% sure the belt is NOT the problem. I did NOT index the distributor before removing it.

When I went to re-start it did not want to start or run. I intially had the distributor in 180 out (I had it firing #1 when all marks were aligned, it should be #4, correct?) so I swapped it 180 and, ONCE, it started and timing by ear, ran fine. I had lunch and when I went back out it would not start and run. I have since replaced the plugs, plug wire and the coil / heat sink / control unit with a new dry coil unit from Vick's. It still does the same thing, won't fire other than stumbling and coughing and won't tune even with timing on the money (via timing light).

I have loads of spark out of the coil, it will shoot a spark across a BIG gap. Clearly I have an issue where the spark is good and the cam timing is good but the spark is not happening when it is suppossed to happen. I have it wired assuming #1 at front of engine working to #4 at firewall and firing order 1,3,4,2, as labeled on the cap. Seems to me like only one possibility left, something is not right with the distributor? I have LOTS of fuel, lots of spark going into the distributor and spark going to the plugs (based on timing light firing). I am frankly at a loss where to go next?

[htchevyii]

Anyone know why I can't "see" this post when I open the engine section? I see it as the most recent post in the index but when I open the ending section it isn't there? Anything to do with the site being down most of the weekend?

After the problem the forum thought it was 1969, so your post was actually old!

[zachmac]

Anyone know why I can't "see" this post when I open the engine section? I see it as the most recent post in the index but when I open the ending section it isn't there? Anything to do with the site being down most of the weekend?

After the problem the forum thought it was 1969, so your post was actually old!

Wow, that would make my car -11 years old and my problem would be non-existent!

[ventura ace]

Plugs fouled maybe?? I usually check that fire is going all the way to the hole by pulling the plug, reconnecting to the plug wire, clamping the plug lightly with a pair of vice grip pliers that is laying on the engine to ground it out. You should get a nice healthy blue spark from each plug and wire set when tested this way.

If that is good, then it's either not firing at the right time (distributor timing), or compression is poor (bad cam shaft timing, bad valve adjustment, worn rings, head gasket, etc.), or bad air / fuel mix.

Alvon

[racydave]

Inspect the wires to the pickup in the dist, and even try it with the vac adv unhooked.

[zachmac]

Plugs fouled maybe?? I usually check that fire is going all the way to the hole by pulling the plug, reconnecting to the plug wire, clamping the plug lightly with a pair of vice grip pliers that is laying on the engine to ground it out. You should get a nice healthy blue spark from each plug and wire set when tested this way.

If that is good, then it's either not firing at the right time (distributor timing), or compression is poor (bad cam shaft timing, bad valve adjustment, worn rings, head gasket, etc.), or bad air / fuel mix.

Alvon

I appreciate the input, really I do, but: I started with a car than ran well and drove from Illinois to SC without issue. While cam timing would indeed do it, it is exactly where it was (as is valve clearance) before the timing belt replacement when the car ran fine and would start with a flick of the key. Rings, head gaskets, etc. haven't changed in the intervening two weeks. Plugs are brand new, just replaced as well as wires (as stated) and I have spark to each plug (as indicated by trigger of timing light via all wires). I am getting a strong spark to each plug, just clearly at the wrong time.

My timing is jumping all over the place as indicated by the timing marks with timing light when I try to start it (cranking with key) so again something is not right with the dizzy? I think next I'll put back all the old dizzy parts (vacuum advance, pickup, rotor and cap) and see what happens, If it runs I cna start putting new parts back one at a time and see where the problem is?

[ventura ace]

The timing light will flash whether there is a weak spark or strong spark. The best way to find out is to look at the spark itself. Plugs can foul very easily and quickly, so don't be sure you're OK just because they are new plugs.

If the timing light is jumping all over the place, it could be that the advance mechanism (springs and weights ) in the dizzy are all messed up. You should be able to pull off a plate inside the dizzy to get a good look at the advance springs. Maybe the springs are missing, or broken, or disconnected. Maybe the pivots for the weights are binding. Check to see that the weights extend and extract smoothly, and that the springs pull them back in if you push them outward.

Keep after it. You'll find it eventually.

Alvon

[zachmac]

The timing light will flash whether there is a weak spark or strong spark. The best way to find out is to look at the spark itself. Plugs can foul very easily and quickly, so don't be sure you're OK just because they are new plugs.

If the timing light is jumping all over the place, it could be that the advance mechanism (springs and weights ) in the dizzy are all messed up. You should be able to pull off a plate inside the dizzy to get a good look at the advance springs. Maybe the springs are missing, or broken, or disconnected. Maybe the pivots for the weights are binding. Check to see that the weights extend and extract smoothly, and that the springs pull them back in if you push them outward.

Keep after it. You'll find it eventually.

Alvon

I agree that I need to pull and check the plugs, they could have fouled again in all this trying. The old set was definitley fuel fouled. I agree that it has to be in the dixzzy. The jumpy timing would indiate advance plate or weight problems. I have noticed that the mechanical advance seems to not return fully (like the spings are too weak (even though I didn't touch any of that since this all started). But, wouldn't that just make it time at a different position of the dizzy body versus the shaft? I mean if the mechanical advance is stuck it should still start and idle once you moved the body to a postiion that offset the "stuck" mechanical advance added timing.

I also wonder if it is something to dowitrh the new vacuum advance. Again, it seems that it either has to be malfuncitoning mechanical or vacuum advance OR the pickup. How critical is the adjustment of the actuating shaft from the vacuum diaphram? As with the mechanical weight system I would think even if it was adjusted such that it was imposing a slight advance all the time you could comensate by moving the body in relation to the shaft (i.e. time out the set advance)?

I am still wondering if I put the magnetic pickup magnet in backwards? That would reverse the N / S poles in relation to the pickup but I have no idea what that would do to operation? I have put the old one back in the way I know it was before and will try again tonight after cleaning each plug thoroughly.

[MNspiderman]

When you get this dilemma all figured out, I am quite sure you need to change your oil and filter again, being its going to be gasoline soaked, and that can ruin your bearings, rings, etc etc. Just had to throw my 4 cents in there.

[zachmac]

When you get this dilemma all figured out, I am quite sure you need to change your oil and filter again, being its going to be gasoline soaked, and that can ruin your bearings, rings, etc etc. Just had to throw my 4 cents in there.

Oil & filter along with the new non-dented oil pan and new engine mounts are all sitting on the bench waiting for me to get this part figured out.

Thanks!

[So Cal Mark]

the car won't run if the magnet is upside down, did you remove it?