Hello all. I am trying to restore my nana's '79 spider 2000. Thanks to this board I successfully diagnosed and replaced the starter/solenoid and now she starts!
But on to the electrical issues... (yes, I have my voltmeter and artigue diagram in hand)
I don't get a "click" from the switch on either left or right signal and the arrows on my dash don't flash; needless to say there is no indication from the exterior lights that this car even has a turn signal mechanism. I don't have the 25A fuse in the fuse box's 9/I terminal (my hazards don't work), but have tested the turn signal fuse (A) and it passes current. My manual states that the "I" fuse is 25A but Artigue's diagram indicates an 8A. I have tried swapping another 8A in its place to no avail.
Turn Signals, or lack thereof...
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mbouse
Re: Turn Signals, or lack thereof...
rule #1 with any electrical issue. check the grounds. clean and tighten all grounds, especially at the rear lights
rule #2, look for a common point, and in this case, it most likely is the hazard switch. make sure it is fully connected with clean contacts, both for the ring connection and the singular wire in the center of the ring.
third, regardless of their apparent condition, replace all the bulbs.
i am betting that you will solve your issue before you need #4
btw- the turn signals will not work unless the ignition switch is ON. the hazards should work regardless of key position.
rule #2, look for a common point, and in this case, it most likely is the hazard switch. make sure it is fully connected with clean contacts, both for the ring connection and the singular wire in the center of the ring.
third, regardless of their apparent condition, replace all the bulbs.
i am betting that you will solve your issue before you need #4
btw- the turn signals will not work unless the ignition switch is ON. the hazards should work regardless of key position.
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Griebs
Re: Turn Signals, or lack thereof...
I checked and cleaned G1 and G2 on the diagram. I am having trouble finding "G3" as its position varies from page to page. Those seem to be the only grounds involved in the circuitry. There has been some obvious rewiring by a previous owner which is making this double the fun.
What is the easiest way to access the hazard switch? Assuming the answer is, "Why, behind the dashboard of course", what is the easiest way to remove the dash? I'd like to remove as few screws/nuts as possible.
Is the 25A/8A fuse discrepancy a non-issue?
I should mention that both front/rear brake lights work, but license plate is a negative, as is rear passenger light.
What is the easiest way to access the hazard switch? Assuming the answer is, "Why, behind the dashboard of course", what is the easiest way to remove the dash? I'd like to remove as few screws/nuts as possible.
Is the 25A/8A fuse discrepancy a non-issue?
I should mention that both front/rear brake lights work, but license plate is a negative, as is rear passenger light.
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majicwrench
Re: Turn Signals, or lack thereof...
As has been said, is most likly the hazard switch. Switch on my 72 just pops out of dash, know nothing bout 79.
Good luck,
Keith
Good luck,
Keith
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mbouse
Re: Turn Signals, or lack thereof...
that piece of the dash is held in place by the knurled nuts on the two rheostats. once those are removed, the dash should easily come off, then you can access the hazard switch.
additionally, the glove box insert can be removed to gain access to the components behind this dash piece.
lots of P.O. will screw with the wiring in this area to install a radio... the chances of your car being unmolested for this "goodie" is slim.
the hazard switch must be properly connected for the turn indicators to function properly. this switch has a short lifespan, and needs attention at least once in the life of the car. if the button on the hazard switch will not stay depressed, you have a defective hazard switch. this switch can be remedied in several ways, and out-and-out replacement is possible...but pricey.
http://flumichigan.italiancarclub.com/T ... switch.pdf
additionally, the glove box insert can be removed to gain access to the components behind this dash piece.
lots of P.O. will screw with the wiring in this area to install a radio... the chances of your car being unmolested for this "goodie" is slim.
the hazard switch must be properly connected for the turn indicators to function properly. this switch has a short lifespan, and needs attention at least once in the life of the car. if the button on the hazard switch will not stay depressed, you have a defective hazard switch. this switch can be remedied in several ways, and out-and-out replacement is possible...but pricey.
http://flumichigan.italiancarclub.com/T ... switch.pdf
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Griebs
Re: Turn Signals, or lack thereof...
Thanks for the help, guys. I removed the hazard switch, cleaned up the spades with oil and a wire brush. I found the third ground (G3), just beside the steering column, checked the Violet/Black ground from the hazard switch, alles gut.
Now, w/ the ignition ON:
When hazard pressed, nothing. But when I flip the left turn signal, there comes that good old click click (haz does not flash). Nothing happens when hazard is unpressed either. There is still no dash or ext. side flash but front signal works. When I flip the signal to the right, there is nothing, not even clicking.
Remember that empty fuse (i)?
Well, I borrowed an 8A fuse from another slot and put it in. Now console light below radio turns on. When key ON, LOUD buzz from a relay under the dash. Hazard lights up only when unpressed.. Press it in, hazard light goes off, left blinker works now even without the key turned. Hazards flash on the left front signal only so I've got some work to do on the right side...
Does this confirm that I need to get that 25A fuse and not another 8?
Now, w/ the ignition ON:
When hazard pressed, nothing. But when I flip the left turn signal, there comes that good old click click (haz does not flash). Nothing happens when hazard is unpressed either. There is still no dash or ext. side flash but front signal works. When I flip the signal to the right, there is nothing, not even clicking.
Remember that empty fuse (i)?
Well, I borrowed an 8A fuse from another slot and put it in. Now console light below radio turns on. When key ON, LOUD buzz from a relay under the dash. Hazard lights up only when unpressed.. Press it in, hazard light goes off, left blinker works now even without the key turned. Hazards flash on the left front signal only so I've got some work to do on the right side...
Does this confirm that I need to get that 25A fuse and not another 8?
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mbouse
Re: Turn Signals, or lack thereof...
who is nana?
umm... without any reference materials in front of me, i cannot answer your fuse question. however, i recommend using ONLY the correct amperage fuses in each slot--according to the wiring diagram from Brad Artigue, or from the shop manual.
if the turn signal (not hazard) is working with the key in your pocket....you have to address the previous owner's wiring snafoo before we can be of much further assistance. OR, did i misunderstand?
can you find which relay is buzzing? or, does the buzzing stop when the key is on and the door is closed?
double check those bulbs, especially the back. if you have a front light flashing, the rear should flash too. doubtful that the indicator in the speedo will flash at all until both the front and the rear on the same side both flash correctly. it is one of those systems that depends on every light working. PITA...
additionally, for $10+shipping, i can send you a replacement (used) hazard switch. email mbouse AT chartermi DOT net
umm... without any reference materials in front of me, i cannot answer your fuse question. however, i recommend using ONLY the correct amperage fuses in each slot--according to the wiring diagram from Brad Artigue, or from the shop manual.
if the turn signal (not hazard) is working with the key in your pocket....you have to address the previous owner's wiring snafoo before we can be of much further assistance. OR, did i misunderstand?
can you find which relay is buzzing? or, does the buzzing stop when the key is on and the door is closed?
double check those bulbs, especially the back. if you have a front light flashing, the rear should flash too. doubtful that the indicator in the speedo will flash at all until both the front and the rear on the same side both flash correctly. it is one of those systems that depends on every light working. PITA...
additionally, for $10+shipping, i can send you a replacement (used) hazard switch. email mbouse AT chartermi DOT net
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Griebs
Re: Turn Signals, or lack thereof...
Thanks so much, Mike. Nana is my grandmother, whose car I am trying to fix. It used to be in wonderful shape but she left it to the elements. My first car was an x 1/9, then I went to car design school in torino, lived right across from the fiat plant, and now I'm back and, still, Fiat. Perhaps I should have asked, "Fiat, why hast thou forsaken me?" instead. I still blame nana.
Anyway, the Fiat manual gives a different Amp rating than artigue (25 vs
. The sound does indeed go away when the door is shut-- you win a prize. I swapped the 8 for a 16A and now the left signal works as it should, in ON only, so I'm off to find a 25er. Hazard still works only when sticking out, seems like it should be the opposite. Rear left blinker does not work, checked the bulbs a few weeks back, all were ok tho.
Well, back to it, thanks again.
Anyway, the Fiat manual gives a different Amp rating than artigue (25 vs
. The sound does indeed go away when the door is shut-- you win a prize. I swapped the 8 for a 16A and now the left signal works as it should, in ON only, so I'm off to find a 25er. Hazard still works only when sticking out, seems like it should be the opposite. Rear left blinker does not work, checked the bulbs a few weeks back, all were ok tho.Well, back to it, thanks again.
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mbouse
Re: Turn Signals, or lack thereof...
hazard switch should work when the button is out.
that annoying noise is the "you left your keys in the ignition..stupid" buzzer. it is working properly. it can easily be disconnected, or replaced for a less offending buzzer.
if you feel the bulbs are o.k. then you are looking at either grounds or the wires.. did you thoroughly clean the bulb sockets and check those connections?
that annoying noise is the "you left your keys in the ignition..stupid" buzzer. it is working properly. it can easily be disconnected, or replaced for a less offending buzzer.
if you feel the bulbs are o.k. then you are looking at either grounds or the wires.. did you thoroughly clean the bulb sockets and check those connections?
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Griebs
Re: Turn Signals, or lack thereof...
Wonderful news. My uncle, who was poking around in the trunk, had disconnected a plug from the rear left blinker-- hooked it back up and Oila-- even right blinkers! Faint glowing in front right side bulb, so both side bulbs prolly just need to be replaced.
So, in closing, if anyone has similar problems, check for corrosion on hazard switch-- spray, brush it, make sure everything is grounded and... PLUGGED IN!
So, in closing, if anyone has similar problems, check for corrosion on hazard switch-- spray, brush it, make sure everything is grounded and... PLUGGED IN!
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rocky
Re: Turn Signals, or lack thereof...
Glad to hear that you've cleared up the problem. Tracking down electrical issues in Italian cars has always been a challenge. One of the things that I found to work well on cleaning electrical grounds and contacts is the Spot Prep Pen, http://www.ipdusa.com/Universal-Product ... -617-1500/. I have used this for everything from removing rust and preparing paint for touchup to cleaning all the grounds and contacts in the electricals on the Fiat and the Alfa. It's not expensive and I keep it in the small box with all of my tools and connectors for dealing with the electrical system on our cars.
Greg
'77 Spider
'74 AR GTV
Greg
'77 Spider
'74 AR GTV
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Griebs
Re: Turn Signals, or lack thereof...
Thanks for the suggestion on the spray -- I've got lots of electrical jobs ahead and I just ran out of both PB and WD...
Power windows up next-- they work fine going down but up is a struggle. Will open another thread and divulge all if there is an issue I fix.
Power windows up next-- they work fine going down but up is a struggle. Will open another thread and divulge all if there is an issue I fix.
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mbouse
Re: Turn Signals, or lack thereof...
only six posts and the guy is ON FIRE in the garage!!! one success will lead to another, proven fact.Griebs wrote:Power windows up next-- they work fine going down but up is a struggle. Will open another thread and divulge all if there is an issue I fix.
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Griebs
Re: Turn Signals, or lack thereof...
Ha, don't give me a big head now. I didn't even mention the horn and headlight that I fixed--
And apparently I spoke a little soon. Out of nowhere, the right signal is giving me issues-- only blinks (very fast) when the light switch is flipped to the top, otherwise very slowly, then not at all. It seems when the lights are on, there's no juice left for the blinker; I don't think the Spidy liked being functional so it reverted to its old ways.
I think it has something to do with the rear circuit board, possibly the bulbs. There is still lots of rust on the right rear board; I was able to remove some of it tho.
And apparently I spoke a little soon. Out of nowhere, the right signal is giving me issues-- only blinks (very fast) when the light switch is flipped to the top, otherwise very slowly, then not at all. It seems when the lights are on, there's no juice left for the blinker; I don't think the Spidy liked being functional so it reverted to its old ways.
I think it has something to do with the rear circuit board, possibly the bulbs. There is still lots of rust on the right rear board; I was able to remove some of it tho.