So Cal Mark wrote:yes, we can blame obama for all of these troubles, but they really started long ago and are just coming to fruition now. I just think it's very funny that nearly everyone blames American workers then complains when the jobs are lost. Then we turn around and celebrate a foreign automaker as the salvation of the Big 3. Yes, I'm confused, because if we can place the blame then everything is good, right?
Hi Mark , I don't see anyone blaming Obama for the problems of the big 3, only me calling politics as usual. I don't blame the American worker. imo for the most part newish cars do not fail due to problems started at the assembly plant. Much more often it's cheesy components, the inevitable result of GM and other's long history of pressuring suppliers to provide cheaper and cheaper components. Also I'm not to quick to celebrate the fiat chrysler merger. Don't see much likelyhood of a significant benefit to fiat, but alot of risk. Also I don't see how they can fit a test track on the top of the chrysler building
No, we can not blame the current administration for the automaker's troubles. We can, and should, hold them accountable for continuing with the previous administrations policies in response to the crisis - the TARP program, "structured" bankruptcies, etc. The economy is shrinking and we're printing money to prop it up. All I know is that it will take longer than my lifetime to pay back all of the debt we are accruing.
Without a doubt, the salvation of the big 3 will not be a foreign automaker, outside of Chrysler partnering with Fiat. Ford is still financially independent and GM is headed toward federally orchestrated restructuring. The only viable option is for the companies to scale themselves down in sync with the shrinking market. I don't think the outsourcing will end with Chinese Buicks. If GM finds it more cost effective to make cars in China and ship them here, they'll do just that. It's the nature of globalization. American workers by and large haven't realized yet that they are competing for jobs against people who will work for ten dollars a day.
mbouse wrote:until the chinese, koreans and the like are forced to comply to the same labor safety and environmental qualities issues that american factories must comply to... the mass exodus will continue.
stockholders will continue to insist on instantaneous returns on investment.
I would be interested to see factual numbers as to the cost load of our saftey and envionmental regulations as it applies to the big 3. While I'm sure it's significant I doubt it compares to things like employee legacy costs, wage\benefit packages, Ad budgets, corporate waste, exec. comp. etc. And how could anyone force China to do anything?
You know Mike you bring up an excellent point that is at the root of many of the financial problems and CEO's plans. People want and demand instant gratification and success. No longer do people want to commit to the long haul. The reason CEO's are paid with what seem like insane bonuses to the rest of us is because the board of directors and stock holders aren't in it for the long haul either. If a company has a bad quarter even if it was no fault of the company the CEO is out. That is why they put into their contracts bonuses for almost anything and buyouts. CEO's of corporations can and do get booted out at any time for one bad financial report. They have to go find a new job like everyone else and their jobs are few and far between so if they don't have a fat bonus our buy out in their contract the caviar stops flowing.
We have day traders now instead of "Investors" because nobody wants to wait for a company to succeed after 5 or 10 years they want to see if they can buy their stock at breakfast and have it sold by lunch.
I have been involved in many successful business endeavors and have noticed how many of the recent venture capitalists wanted to recoup their investment in 12 months and keep a large portion of ownership of the company which is just crazy. Remember when people invested in an idea and helped nurture and grow the company over decades? That's how the automobile companies and other manufacturers where built, not how can we get it all back in a year. This kind of unrealistic expectations causes many of these problems.
It does not matter how well any company is managed either home grown or international, if people do not have the money to buy their product at any price they are not going to sell anything.
Kevin1 wrote: I don't think the outsourcing will end with Chinese Buicks. If GM finds it more cost effective to make cars in China and ship them here, they'll do just that. It's the nature of globalization. American workers by and large haven't realized yet that they are competing for jobs against people who will work for ten dollars a day.
Agreed 100%. How many cried when our electronics industry left? Who now sits in front of thier "zenith" or insert your favorite one time American company name, and and laments that it's now from Asia? there are zero American TV's. Who cried when our garment and shoe indutries vanished? I'll tell you who - the millions that worked hard and were supported by it. Other than that no one really cares. So now it's a chinese Buick. I'll bet most buyers won't even know. Most buyers today don't know the car was assembled north or south south of the border, or that there are only 3 psuedo domestic car companies. sad but true.
The Fed government has mandated such goodies as air bags, traction control, anti-lock brakes. The average auto now has an array of computer modules to operate the windows, mirrors, elec seats, transmissions and fuel control. If you have a air bag deploy they can call support and globally position you. All the american factories must meet emission standards. No black cars in CA. I think we have done ourselves in! Thats why I love my Fiat. And roll my own windows and do not have memory seats! If I need my seat warmed, I'll just fart!
Ha my fiat has power windows, it's impossible to lock the brakes, and it's triple black. I guess I would not be allowed in California, not that it would make it there anyway.
You guys/gals are right on track. I'm so glad that other people are aware of these supposed 'American' cars. Yes, they are American, and the trick is that that means vaguely North American. Mexico and Canada are included therein. I looked at a new Chevy Tahoe and was sickened to find bare primer showing in irregular spots under the hood. That got me on a mission so I did some research and found it was built in Canada. Did you know Dodge Rams trucks, PT Cruisers, Chevy Cobalts, and lots of other 'American' models are built in Mexico?! Canada is one thing, but Mexico? I bought a new Nissan Pathfinder for this very reason: it is a United States built vehicle. My Nissan Pathfinder has only a Japanese transmission. All other parts of it are United States sourced and then assembled here. Don't get me started on Barack Hussein Obama or I'll end up on the terror watch list (along with the returning veterans on Mowbama's list). Living in Los Angeles has shown me that the US is no longer a melting pot, it's been taken over and is nothing but a tool for the rest of the world. Worse yet the feminist activist, tail between it's legs government is giving away more and more of our money to these idiotic car companies that are only planning on more and more outsourcing. Ok, enough politics.
