Welding

[azygoustoyou]

I'm practicing my welding with an arc welder on some steel tubing. I'm using E6011 electrodes. I have it on the lowest setting. (40 amps) My question is: At times when I'm welding, the weld seems to just liquefy. It doesn't happen all the time. I tried pulling the electrode further away. I also tried getting it closer to make the bead larger. Either way, it seems the electrode just is poured out over the metal. Why is this happening. I want to get my welding better before I attempt to weld the frame area where I have to cut out the four bolts holding the cross member on.

[kilrwail]

Is there a trade school near you? Here we would call them community colleges, where you can learn a trade. Maybe there's an evening course on welding that it would be worthwhile taking. The consequences of bad welds being as serious as they are, it might be worth the time and money. Sorry, I can't answer your questions.

[racydave]

I have had good luck with my MIG doing sheet and Rotissaries. I grew up in my Dads Machine shop, watching them weld. A class would be well worth it!

[engineerted]

What size rod are you using? 1/16" - 20-40amps, 3/32" - 40- 125amps good to 1/4" steel, You might try differnt rod diameters

[azygoustoyou]

I was using E6011 , 3/32 size at 40 amps on some scrap about a hair smaller in thickness than 1/8. Would that be 3/32? I also tried 60 amps and it sounded better but still the electrode just would liquefy at times. Maybe it's the electrode. I used E6013 ,1/8 size at 75-105 amps on some scrap about 1/8 to 1/4 and it was fine. I also used E7018 ,1/8nsize at 100-160 on 3/16 to 14. The easiest one to use in my opinion is the E7018. Even the E6013 was good. I need to find out what is happening with the E6011. I'm not sure what the thickness of the metal in the framing is that holds the Cross member bolts. I don't want to use the wrong electrode there especially sine Fiat metal is soft and likes to melt. I don't want to weaken the frame or melt holes in it. Swiss isn't the look I'm going for.

[manoa matt]

The key to welding like soldering is: CLEAN metal, CLEAN joints, and a GOOD ground. Try using a flap disc to clean down to bare metal about 1 inch from the weld area. Make sure your ground attachment is on clean shinny metal and that the ground path is continious.

The Fiat metal of the frame rails is just over 1.3mm thick. Almost 1/16"...actualy pretty thin for an arc welder. A mig welder works well for this thickness of metal and won't produce a huge arc that will burn through the thin metal. It is also more precise and easier to controll the arch length as you don't have to keep "pushing into the work", just hold the mig nozzle at a constant distance and pull the trigger.

One of the best investments to improve your welding skill is an autodarkening welding helmet/mask. You can start and stop an arc in just the right spot everytime and don't have to worry about flipping the mask up and down and letting your eyes adjust. A real time saver.

I am by no means a welding expert, actually I have one of the cheapist flux core mig welders and auto helmet you can buy. (Harbor Freight, sorry Mike B.) However with enough practice and the proper surface preperation you will be able to produce good structural welds. You saw my frame rail fix. I did all that with the car was on jack stands, with the engine in, while laying on my back.

[azygoustoyou]

Thanks Matt,
You know, I did just buy the auto helmet and love it. Thanks for letting me know I should use the mig welder on the frames. Did you do your weld passes all in one shot by making the weld thicker as you go? Or did you weld more than on pass on each weld to build up your weld? My mig actually has a voltage rating from 1-4. What setting did you have your voltage set at? Also size what wire did you use? And was it a flux core wire or did you use the gas? Thanks for your help!

[Ernie]

Yeah, I was just about to write a PM with similar questions -- mainly interested in how effective a guy can be with the cheapo welder.

Sounds like you used flux wire only. According to what I read that's possible with heavier material but not so good for sheet metal work. I don't know how to equate that to fixing Fiat floors and bodies. My question is, will the flux wire unit do an OK job on this kind of repair? Or, do I need to get the gas to make it work at all, keeping in mind this is a hobby, not making a living.

Thanks,
Ernie

[azygoustoyou]

Sounds like your where I am. The flux core wire is good for like windy conditions where the gas might be having a hard time surrounding the weld. I like the flux core but it leaves a slag ( I think that's what it's called) around. So it's like sloppier to deal with. I like it better. If your looking for a really clean weld that you won't have to clean the area around the weld. You;ll want to use the gas..If I got that right. LOL

[manoa matt]

Yes I have a flux core wire welder, I think the wire is for mild steel and a .30 or .35 diameter. Only a high 90 amp setting and a low 60 amp setting, I used the low setting with a wire speed of about 6, on a 1-10 scale.

Mig welding is good for sheet metal of about 1mm to 1/4 inch thick. Arc welding material thickness depends upon the amp setting, but more importantly the electrode size.

Both mig and gasless mig have their pros and cons. But i think the weld strength is about the same. The flux core will produce some smoke and splatter around the weld area, but not the slag that is produced from arc welding. Its about the same abount of clean up as arc welding, maybe less. You just need a toothbrush sized CLEAN wire brush to clean up the areas when you start and stop.

Obviously the gas mig will produce a cleaner weld, but the gas cylinder, regulators and gas may cost as much as a welder. It takes finesse to start and stop the gas and also start and stop the arc at the right times and beginners will waste a lot of gas trying to learn. I don't mind the extra clean up time because I'm not making a living off welding and would rather take my time to make sure I've got it right. If I had a big shop or garage I might invest in a better more sofisticated welder, but I live in an apartment and do my welding in my carport, so dragging a welder, gas cylinder and all hoses in and out is not that practical for me. Sometimes its windy, and somtimes I'm welding in aquward positions, so the less clutter and things to think about the better.

With the relatively thin metal of the frame rails or body panels, the technique is to make various spot welds at alternating points so you don't heat up and distort the metal in one area. Not so much with frame rails, but very important on body panels.

There are plenty of online articles and how to's on welding if you just look for them. Like anything, reading about it will only do so much untill you actually try it. I stop by the dumpster behind the metal shop/art department at the local university about once a month to obtain more than enough metal of various thicknesses and shapes to practice on or use for projects. If thats not an option drive around the neighborhood on a sunday night and pick up metal scraps people throw out. Or go to the junk yard and buy a body panel, cut it up and try welding it back together.

Like most things, ie. fishing, photography, art, car mechanics, carpentry, etc.. The right tools help, but you don't necessarily need the "best" or most expensive tools to do a good job. Its what you can do with your tools. Some of the best fish or photos I've ever taken, were with equipment I made myself. You can pick up one of those welders for about $100-120 and it will come with all the wire your will ever need.

[racydave]

I guess Im on the other side. I always heard not to use the flux-core. Im no expert on the subject. I got the gas, and have extremly good sucess with it. And Matt, I do not think monitoring the gas is a problem, its just point and weld. I do love the automatic dimming helmet, and I bought them at Tractor suply. Its a Hobart MIG. I recently have welded much on the bodypanels. You will warp them easilly, so tack them, and do not weld thin metal more than 1/4 inch, followed by a cold wet rag.

[Ernie]

Matt,

Thanks for taking the time to explain. I've been agonizing over spending the dough for the better mig welder that may not get used much or going cheap just to get some minor work done. I don't fancy myself as a long time welder.

I really don't have that much welding to do, at least for the project cars I currently own, so with your comments I'm leaning toward a tool that will just get the job done. I don't mind if I have to do some clean up afterward.

I suppose I could take the car to someone who can weld for me, but that's not my style. I'd rather figure out how to do it myself (stubborn as hell, my wife calls it).

Ernie

[manoa matt]

Harbor freight sells the mig welders set up for gas for about the same price as the flux core versions. The only difference is the hose to the nozzle is capable of delivering gas. You can buy one of those and use flux core wire. If at a later date you want to use regular mig wire and gas all you have to do is buy the cylinder and regulator.

[ronarthur]

If you are using welding rods, make sure that they are dry. Damp rods usually don't weld very well. Stick them in your oven for a little while before using them.

[azygoustoyou]

Thx, I did buy a container to help with the storage of the rods. If I put them in the oven, what temp and how long? Should I tell the wife?