I took my ignition switch off a little while back and I'm waiting for a new one right now. I thought I might ask what you guys could make of this:
Could this have been caused by my failing ignition switch? Before I removed it there was a lot of fiddling around with the loose key trying to make the right connection to get the car started.
What's going to be the best way to get the new ignition hooked up given that these wires are a little scorched (2nd photo)?
well, there is a possibility that the ignition switch was not the cause of the problem, the faulty connection between the two sides of that connector may have been the whole problem to begin with.
find someone that has a parts car, and get both sides of that connector replaced.
What year is your car? Several causes: corroded connections which cause high resistance, headlights, engine fan motor.
With a small precision screwdriver, wire, or pick. Stick it down into the connector block to release the tab on the terminals from the plastic housing. The existing terminals can be cleaned up with a dremel and a mild acid solution to remove corrosion and create a less resistive path. I probably have a good spare connector block I could send you.
Figure out where those wires go and what they power. Clean all the contacts and connections along the length of the wires to the source/destination. If they power the headlights, consider the headlight relay upgrade. If they power the engine fan motor, chances are you have a poor ground connection. The "brown wire fix" may also be needed.
Try to figure it out and solve it before installing the new switch. As new switches are expensive and if the problem is not solved you could burn through your new switch in short order.
very common problem and it's not the fault of the switch. The problem is the amount of amperage in that circuit. The heat causes the terminals to become loose and that causes more heat and resistance until the connector burns and melts the plastic. I take that circuit out of the connector and clean, then solder those wires for a positive connection
I butt connectored mine, but if you want to solder them, you could use the sleeve from a butt connector, crimp it, then solder. Shrink wrap would be good also.
I noted on my 79 that when the headlights were on, that connector block was so hot it would cook your hand. I had the signs that the block was turning brown as well. After performing the headlight relay...the heat on the connector block was gone. Afterward I eliminated it. Just cut both ends off and used connectors to complete the circuit.
Frank
79 Fiat Spider.
I put off dealing with these wires for a while because international-auto's invoice informed me that my new switch wasn't going to ship until March 1st. Well, the 13th rolled around today and it still hadn't shipped. I called them up and they informed me that it wouldn't be shipping until April now. I really wish I had known that. Either way, I canceled that order and got the switch for a little more money at Vick's with 2nd day air added.
And now I'm going to try and tackle this wiring. There are a lot of suggestions here and I'm not sure where to start. Is it the general consensus that I should just remove the connector block from these wires and the new switch and just solder them together?
Also, my headlights have been very dim ever since I got the car, and turning them on has always turned on the red electrical light. Could this wiring be the cause of that? Does this mean I should also relay the headlights? Is the relay just a common part I can order? Lastly, it came up that perhaps I should perform the brown wire fix-- I remember looking that up a long time ago and dismissing it because I thought that it didn't apply to 81's, was I wrong?
I'll try and figure out where the two problem wires lead as well as attempt to get the melted block off of them and then update the thread (hopefully later today).
Soldering old wires together can be tricky. You could probably achieve the desired results by properly but-connecting the wires.I did. Bernie wrote up a good post on proper procedures and tools for electrical repairs. The brown wire fix is a bypass for the ignition switch. Instead of all the current passing through the switch. The power for the relay can come from the starter as the posative cable goes there from the battery and then branches to everything else. That would be the pefrect time to clean the wires at the starter with some emory cloth. Instead, I ran a heavy gauge wire from the battery to the dash, and fused the wire at the battery. Then I added the circut to the headlights, wiper and blower motor on the source side of the fuse box, and ran thru the fuses. The ignition 12 volt wire is then used to activate the relay ( pulling less than .5 amps ) Which uses the current supplied through the new circut. It only has power with the key in run. Also very related is the ground wire situation. Its highly recomended to add a heavy gauge groundstrap from the engine to the chassis sheet metal. Good luck!
Vick's e-mailed me shortly after ordering the switch from them that they won't be getting it for another 2 weeks, wondering if I'd still like to follow through with the order. Since their switch is more expensive, and I had gone to them after IAP because I just wanted to get the switch sooner rather than later, I asked them if they'd be willing to match the price of the IAP switch so that I wouldn't have cancel an order and then make another at IAP.
Just now I received an e-mail from the owner of Vick's. He didn't say that they would be able to match the price, but he did give me some info on an "lower quality" ignition switch which Vick's used to supply but which was thrown away when he took over the business. He seemed to imply that switches other than the higher quality switch that Vick's supplies now could leave you stranded on the side of the road. Can anyone bring some 3rd party insight into this? Personally, I wouldn't mind going back to IAP in order to save some money. Is there some sort of reputation for them having low quality ignition switches?
Bart, I have a NOS switch that I can sell you. Just send me a PM or email me at statonmc at hotmail.com and we can work out a price and I can send you pictures to see if it would work for you.
it's my understanding that all of the ign switches coming into the country are the Russian switches and are not as good as the oem switches (which weren't very good either)
I agree with the post advising the use of butt crimp connectors. If a person does not have a fair amount of soldering experience chances of making a good connection are slim. Especially soldering in uncomfortable positions with wires that have overheated. Solder connections have been pretty much replaced with crimp in the aviation industry because the point where the solder ends in the wire leaves a flex point that can cause the wire to break under long term vibrations.
In either case the wires have to be cut back about 1 inch till good clean wire is found. The connections should be staggered so they don't form a large group as this stresses the connections. Good quality butt connectors and crimpers can be found at electrical supply houses. They are of the ratchet type and pretty much guarantee proper crimping force. After a crimp is made you should be able to pull as hard as you can on the wires and not have the connection come apart.
If your original switch works mechanically ( key turns) I would splice it into the circuit and see what happens.
Good Luck
BTW....might want to check to make certain you don't have a higher rated fuse on that circuit whatever it is....that's pretty darned burnt up!
The thick black and brown wire at that connector is precisely why the Brown Wire Fix is done. Imagine that all the wires in that connector (including the all-too-important brown one) are corroded...perhaps not to the extent that the burnt up wires were but enough that they are not making as good of contact as they should be. Now multiply that by one or two since there are one or two more of those connector blocks between the starter (12v) and the ignition (where the 12v passes through to the rest of the car!). Hence...poor juice coming to the ignition where it gets divvied up to all the accessories.
Gregory Smith over on mirafiori.com makes a real nice headlight relay kit tailor made for spiders (specify year). I think he makes them up per order for about $70. This has been on my to-do list for a long time.
Interested in RacyDave's application....did you relay your your wipers and heater as well? I've been wanting to get my heater and wipers off the same circuit.....
Marc, you use the relay to power any circut that was powered by ignition voltage. Anything that is hot all the time needs no relay, just fused to the new power source.
4baby sent me some pictures of the ignition switch that he can sell me. He's hooked up to his 80' successfully, but the one thing that concerns me is that, along with the larger connector block that was melted on my old switch, there's a smaller connector coming off as well. Is this switch going to work with my 81'? There's only one connection block on the switch I pulled off of my car.
Here's a picture of that smaller connector with the larger one in the background.
