Belt Skipped a Few Teeth

Keep it on topic, it will make it easier to find what you need.
Post Reply
18Fiatsandcounting
Posts: 3798
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:23 pm
Your car is a: 1969 and 1971 124 spiders
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Belt Skipped a Few Teeth

Post by 18Fiatsandcounting »

Motor oil would work, but I was thinking something that was less viscous and would flow easier. And yes, rubbing alcohol is a mixture of water and isopropanol, so I wouldn't let it sit in the combustion chamber for too long. But, an hour or so should be fine. Besides, the main combustion products of burning gas are carbon dioxide and water, although not in liquid form at that temperature! :shock:

-Bryan
CharlieB
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:01 pm
Your car is a: 1976 Fiat Spider

Re: Belt Skipped a Few Teeth

Post by CharlieB »

Ok, dumb question of the day.
Is there a top side to the springs? In other words, is it possible to install the springs upside down?
I kept all the springs and valves in the correct orientation when I removed them. Except the valve that was broken.
I don't see a difference on either end of the spring, but i just wanted to make sure.
Thanks
Charlie
1976 Fiat 124 Spider
18Fiatsandcounting
Posts: 3798
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:23 pm
Your car is a: 1969 and 1971 124 spiders
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Belt Skipped a Few Teeth

Post by 18Fiatsandcounting »

I'm always open to being proved wrong, but I don't believe the spring direction matters, and I've never paid attention to this when putting things back together. Don't forget the two washers against the head under the springs, one is flat and one is stepped (for the inner spring). Not like I've ever done that.... Nah, couldn't happen... :lol:

-Bryan
ORFORD2004
Posts: 1120
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:48 pm
Your car is a: 1983 PININFARINA
Location: Sherbrooke, Qc, Canada

Re: Belt Skipped a Few Teeth

Post by ORFORD2004 »

You stop lapping when you have a clean line all around the base and valve.
CharlieB
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:01 pm
Your car is a: 1976 Fiat Spider

Re: Belt Skipped a Few Teeth

Post by CharlieB »

Thanks ORFORD...I think I have them right...I hope.
Bryan, despite my best efforts I have not been able to prove you wrong.
Thanks guys
Charlie
1976 Fiat 124 Spider
CharlieB
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:01 pm
Your car is a: 1976 Fiat Spider

Re: Belt Skipped a Few Teeth

Post by CharlieB »

Anyone have any tips / tricks for reinstalling the valve springs?
I can't seem to balance the tool and hold the springs in place. I've tried different tools, watched videos and even had my wife 'help'.
Everyone makes it look so easy, what am I doing wrong?
Thanks
Charlie
1976 Fiat 124 Spider
18Fiatsandcounting
Posts: 3798
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:23 pm
Your car is a: 1969 and 1971 124 spiders
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Belt Skipped a Few Teeth

Post by 18Fiatsandcounting »

Can you point to a picture on the web of the type of valve spring compressor that you're using?

Installing valve springs can be somewhat tricky, and it's trickier with some tools than with others. A few pointers:
  • - Make sure the fork that fits around the upper round collar that sits on the springs is adjusted to the right size. Too small, and it won't fit on the collar. Too large, and it will slip off.
    - If you have a large enough vise on your workbench, clamp the cylinder head in the vise to hold it steady. I strongly urge using wood blocks or the like to prevent damaging the various surfaces on the head (the one to the block, and the two cambox mating surfaces).
    - My valve spring tool is basically a large C-clamp, and you put the flat cup end on the valve head and the other forked end on the upper collar that sits on top of the springs. You crank down on the C-clamp (actually a lever) and the tool compresses the two springs (inner and outer). Once about 1/2" of the valve stem is showing, you can slip the two retainer collets into place. Sometimes you can get one collet in and then have to work the tool around a bit to get the other to slip into place. Once the collets are in place, gently release the tool and make sure that the collets are indeed embedded in that groove at the top of the valve stem. If they aren't fully seated, you risk having the springs fly off when you least expect it.
-Bryan
CharlieB
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:01 pm
Your car is a: 1976 Fiat Spider

Re: Belt Skipped a Few Teeth

Post by CharlieB »

Thanks Bryan, I ended up using an actual c clamp and an adapter from my tool.
Here's the tool I used Image
I used the large adapter and tacked it to a 10" c clamp. Worked like a dream.
Glad that's done.
I'll start getting things back together tomorrow, check valve clearance, etc..
Thanks again
Charlie
1976 Fiat 124 Spider
18Fiatsandcounting
Posts: 3798
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:23 pm
Your car is a: 1969 and 1971 124 spiders
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Belt Skipped a Few Teeth

Post by 18Fiatsandcounting »

Charlie, your inventiveness never ceases to amaze. Carry on mate, and I think that you're well on the way to getting it running again.

-Bryan
CharlieB
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:01 pm
Your car is a: 1976 Fiat Spider

Re: Belt Skipped a Few Teeth

Post by CharlieB »

Bryan I would love to say I was that clever, but I subconsciously stole that trick from the "Eldest Builds 1979 Spider Rebuild" series on youtube.
Ok, so I've been cleaning things up today and I have yet another question.
Do I need to drain more coolant out of the block? You can see coolant in the passages.
Image
I've been careful not to drop anything in the holes as I've been cleaning.
I'll move on to cleaning out the head bolt locations and the bolts themselves.
Thanks...and happy 4th
Charlie
1976 Fiat 124 Spider
18Fiatsandcounting
Posts: 3798
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:23 pm
Your car is a: 1969 and 1971 124 spiders
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Belt Skipped a Few Teeth

Post by 18Fiatsandcounting »

Happy 4th of July to you as well, Charlie!

It's funny you should ask these questions, as I just in the last hour started up my '71 after having to take the head off in the last few weeks because of a stripped spark plug hole. While I had the head off to have it fixed, I also put in a new water pump, heater pipe, cleaned up the manifolds, and set the valve clearances. The good news is that it started right up, and there were no puddles of oil or coolant under the car. But enough about me.

Yes, I would drain the coolant out, using that petcock valve on the passenger side of the block (sometimes it's just a plug). When I clean the top of the block while it's still in the car, I tape off the 6 oil pressure bores (holes) so that nothing falls down there. If dust or carbon chips or the like fall into the oil line return passageways, I just ignore them as they'll end up in the oil sump pan and I usually do an oil and filter change soon after rebuilding the engine anyway. If it concerns you, you could tape off those holes as well. As for the cooling passageway holes, I mostly ignore what falls into them (except for metal stuff like nuts or bolts), and then I blow them out really good with a combination of a shop vac on some holes while shooting compressed air into other holes. I also put new coolant in the engine after I get it all back together and have verified that everything is good and I don't need to take it apart again. Don't laugh, this has happened to me... :x

As for the 10 head bolts and holes, I clean the bolt threads with a wire brush and blow compressed air down into the holes to remove any debris, and then run the bolts up and down into the block a few times with some oil on the threads, just to make sure nothing is sticking. You could also use a thread chaser. I wouldn't use a thread cutting tap, as I've heard that this can damage bolt holes. Not sure if it's an old wives tale or not, but I'd rather not take a change with the head bolt threads in the block.

-Bryan
CharlieB
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:01 pm
Your car is a: 1976 Fiat Spider

Re: Belt Skipped a Few Teeth

Post by CharlieB »

Thanks Bryan, great info. Glad to hear your car is running.
I'm still cleaning up bolts and nuts. Manifolds are clean.
Man it's hot, I think I'll call it a day.
Thanks again
Charlie
1976 Fiat 124 Spider
CharlieB
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:01 pm
Your car is a: 1976 Fiat Spider

Re: Belt Skipped a Few Teeth

Post by CharlieB »

Ok, everything is finally back together. Timing marks line up. I rotated the engine a few times just to make sure.
I'm ordering shims today.
One of my exhaust valves measures .010" (.254 mm) which I realize is very tight.
Is it safe to try to start the car with clearance so tight? Or should I fight the urge and wait until I get shims?
Thanks
Charlie
1976 Fiat 124 Spider
CharlieB
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:01 pm
Your car is a: 1976 Fiat Spider

Re: Belt Skipped a Few Teeth

Post by CharlieB »

I just wanted to give another progress report.
I got the shims, clearance is within spec on all.
I tried to start the car but no dice.
It is getting spark and fuel. I'll do a compression test tomorrow.
Thanks
Charlie
1976 Fiat 124 Spider
CharlieB
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:01 pm
Your car is a: 1976 Fiat Spider

Re: Belt Skipped a Few Teeth

Post by CharlieB »

Did a compression test and all 4 cylinders are around 95 psi.
EDIT: Ignore those numbers. I did the test without pressing the throttle.
I'll redo tomorrow.
1976 Fiat 124 Spider
Post Reply