#&%@ - DPO stripped the engine mount bolt

[tdskip]

Grrrr - this car is really fighting me.

As a reminder I lost a chunk of my flex coupler resulting in my trying to swap a new one in only to find that I couldn't refit the driveshaft. After doing some sleuthing it appears the engine has shifted rearward due to failed engine mounts. No biggie, just swap out the engine mounts and then reinstall the driveline. Easy, right?

Nope, not easy. Two issues;

1) the DPO stripped the drivers side lower motor mount nut. No idea how I'm to get access to that.

2) lifting the engine up via oil pan and transmission bellhousing results in engine hitting the rear firewall and not allowing enough clearance to get the old mount off.

I suppose the engine being too far rear would explain #2 but figuring that out is not going to do me any good with #1 being solved.

Ugh.

[dinghyguy]

Hmmm, can you put some tension on the engine mount by jacking or lifting the engine and then if you are perhaps lucky the nut might catch enough to eventually unwind......but perhaps not.

second thought wound be if you can create enough space to get a hacksaw blade only in between the motor mount base and the cross member you might be able to cut the bolt by hand slowly and painfully...….learning new @#$%^ words as you go and maybe even cutting your hand as well.

good luck
dinghyguy

[18Fiatsandcounting]

In addition to what Dinghyguy said above, here are a few things I've learned:

- These motor mounts can be a pain. That being said...

- Don't try to change both mounts at the same time. Jack up one side of the engine, work on that mount, then jack up the other side to do the other mount.

- Remove the four nuts that hold the motor mount bracket to the block. Remove the top motor mount nut and loosen the lower one. If the one side of the engine is high enough, you should be able to wiggle the bracket loose off the top mount stud.

- Depending on the mount design, there may be two 10 mm nuts (with split washers) that hold the top plate of the mount to the lower part. There is a pretty large spring inside, so be careful removing those nuts. Sometimes taking this top plate off helps remove the mount. If your mount isn't designed this way, ignore this step.

- As for removing that lower mount nut, I think Dinghyguy's approach is about the only way to tackle it.

- Bryan

[tdskip]

I have to say I am kind of pissed. The coolant conversion kit I bought from Vick's won't work now since if I move the engine forward to allow it to clear the rear firewall their electric fan will be in contact with the engine pulley where the mechanical fan used to mount. Grrrr.

To get the engine more forward I need to loose then remaining engine mount and/or the transmission mount, correct?

If I can't get that bolt out I need to pull the engine and drop the subframe, right?

Thanks gentlemen, sorry I am frustrated.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I hear you, tdskip, and believe me, we've all been in situations like this. I'm sure we can resolve this without pulling the engine and dropping the crossmember, but let me step back a bit and take a deep breath and.... think about what we gots to do.

More later.

-Bryan

[tdskip]

Hope it's been a good weekend.

I'm going to have to pull the radiator out and adjust the mounting brackets AGAIN, that much is sure. Not sure if I'll be able to use the fan that came with the Vicks kit. In any case I'm going to fit the engine and trans and

With the radiator out of the way I'll have enough room to move the engine forward, but still need to figure out why it is too far back. I assume that will require loosening the transmission mount bolts too.

Which brings us to the stripped nut. No room for an extractor and have been able to get a wrench on it from inside the engine bay.

Maybe a 12 point socket? Hard to get much heat in there. Cutting it a body saw will be difficult because the mount is rubber and access not great.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

This isn't going to help you with your striped nut, but here's a thought: Is it possible that your motor mounts are reversed left to right? On my '69, the motor mounts look sorta like an airplane wing in that they sweep backward as you move away from the engine. In other words, the rear edge of the mount is perpendicular with the block, but the front edge sweeps towards the rear as you move away from the engine.

If they were reversed, that might result in the engine being too far back which could explain your driveshaft issue. However, reversing them would result in the engine moving forward, which would make your radiator/fan/block clearance issue even worse...

Back to the striped nut, though: We are talking about the nut that is usually accessed from underneath the car and through the hole in the bottom of the crossmember, right? This nut can be reached while working from the top of the car, but it's much harder that way.

-Bryan

[dinghyguy]

re rad clearance issue - i was watching the UTUBE videos from ELDEST builds and he seemed to have clearance issues with installing an aluminum radiator such that he actually trimmed the body a bit to make the rad sit forward. Apparently the aluminum rad is not exactly the same as the original fiat ne. Not sure that is directly relevant but he did show where and what he trimmed.
Hope it helps.
dinghyguy

[tdskip]

Good morning and thank you both for the responses.

I’ll have to look again, I’m not near the car right now, but I would not be surprised if the mounts were reversed. That would explain quite a bit.

I made a harbor freight run this morning and picked up a pump to drain the coolant out so I don’t spill it all over the garage floor, a 12 point deep socket and a bolt extractor.

It is, of course, the nut that you access from underneath the car. The guy I bought it from was a nice guy and all but I have to admit I may have directed some interesting language at him yesterday.




BTW - Vicks acknowledge that the shape of the radiator and mounts is wrong for the early cars, I’m going to have to either change the mounts or, most likely, trim the body a little bit to make it all fit. I am loathe to do that but making sure that the airflow is properly directed otherwise is going to be an ongoing issue .

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Makes sense, and keep us posted. Now that you mention it, I do seem to recall that aftermarket radiators have a tough time with clearance issues on earlier Fiats. One solution might be a "low profile" radiator fan, even if it isn't for a Fiat. They're all going to be 12 volts, and while there will be some differences in air flow and such, what you really care about is the clearance between it and the water pump pulley. Maybe someone makes an electric fan that is only 1.5" deep or so. And, if all else fails, I suppose you could get really creative and mount the fan in front of the radiator, and then you'd have all the clearance you need.

On the striped nut: Do you know if the nut is stripped on that lower-facing stud on the mount, or the stud has separated from the lower part of the mount and so the nut and stud are both spinning when you turn the nut? If you can get an air impact wrench on that nut, the quick torque pulses might be enough to back off the nut while the inertia of the stud keeps it from turning.

-Bryan

[tdskip]

It feels like the socket is slipping on the not rather than the whole stud moving.

Fan in front is an option but not a bit fan (tip your waiters whenever we go back to in person stuff).

[18Fiatsandcounting]

It feels like the socket is slipping on the not rather than the whole stud moving.

Ah-ha! A different beast! I think that nut is 17 mm (maybe 19 mm), but if the problem is that the points are rounded or it's the wrong nut, there are some options. Try a 12 point socket as well as 6 point, and try some English sizes like 5/8", 11/16", and 3/4" 12 and 6 point. I think they also make some "universal" sockets which adjust to fit most anything. I've never used these, but maybe they work?

-Bryan

[dinghyguy]

Bryan....maybe not Ah Ha ….he could be saying the nut and socket are both rotating ie the threads are stripped NOT the nut flats are rounded .
just being the doubting Dinghyguy….

[tdskip]

Pretty sure the nut is stripped.

Part of the issuance the motor mount is so soft it has collapsed to a point where the nut/stud ate at a severe angle so it’s not a clean alignment of the socket to the nut.

This car came with a pile of used parts and am thinking the DPO May have put an already sunked mount on this side and then it sat in TX hear and turned to mush.

My new plan is to get an electric body saw and cut the top stud so the mount is released from the block and that may allow the mount to me tilted back up so the lower stud/nut alignment is better.

[tdskip]

OK - so the latest is that I got a sawzall and cut through the offending engine mount but it did not chance the alignment/access to the recessed nut/stud. Frustratingly the mounts I have on the car have thick metal coils in the middle so even with the engine lifted the coils are preventing the engine mount from being compressed down from the top to be released.

I have no flipping idea how the DPO got these installed - I assume he had to have dropped the subframe or had the engine out.