Oil leaks everywhere (or nearly everywhere) on the 1968

[tdskip]

Apparently she really doesn't not want to be put into use yet...

I noticed some caked on oil on the block under the exhaust manifold, near the metal coolant return line, worse on the back near the firewall. Did some digging and it appears that is the fairly common leaky stud.

1) to address the leaky stud do I "simply" clean everything, back that stud out, add red RTV and then reassmebly to 15 ft points with the torque wrench?

I also noticed an actual puddle under the car, need to make sure oil drain plug is tight but any other ideas on what that might be? The passenger side front of the bellhousing was wet with fresh oil if that is a clue.

I got a thumbs up from my significant other with the rare "I can't wait to use this" endorsement so I need to get this sorted. She'll enjoy the car.

Thanks!

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I got a thumbs up from my significant other with the rare "I can't wait to use this" endorsement so I need to get this sorted. She'll enjoy the car.

Well, you've won 90% of the battle there, my friend, so the rest should be easy.

Given the car's age, my guess is that you have multiple oil leaks, although some could be more pronounced than others. In no particular order:

1. The cam cover gaskets are a common source of leaks.
2. If the crankcase breather tube is blocked, missing, or not attached, and you have significant blowby past your piston rings, this is another common source.
3. Rear crankshaft oil seal. If you see oil dripping out of the flywheel cover flange at the bottom on the bellhousing, this is a likely suspect. Could also be the front transmission seal, though.
4. As you noted, the manifold studs. Also the engine mount studs. Some of these insert directly into places where oil can get to inside the engine. Oil can seep past the threads, and thread sealer is the cure.
5. Camshaft and auxiliary shaft oil seals.
6. The Fiat DOHC generally has a fair amount of oil sloshing or spraying around in the top half of the engine, so the cambox-to-head gaskets can leak. See also #1 above.

I never have gotten my Fiats to be completely leak-free, although I have seen pictures from some on this forum who have managed to achieve this nirvana. I worship these gods that walk amongst mere mortals such as I.

If I were you, I'd take a some engine degreaser and a high pressure hose and clean off what you can, and then see if you can see where it leaks the most. Safety tip: Don't spray a hot engine with cold water.

-Bryan

[tdskip]

Thank you for the very detailed list of things to check. Super helpful.

I cleaned everything up really well and took it for about a 10 minute drive which is all it took to identify a couple leaks.

#4) I have a pretty good leak coming from the top bolts on the passenger side engine mount, so I imagine I need to carefully support the engine back those out clean everything and then RTV.

The other area that looks actively wet with fresh oil is at the very rear of the engine near the top – hard to get a really good view on that but is that likely the gasket for the cam cover?

I’m sure I have other leaks but maybe I can start with those two?

Hope you had a good weekend .

[18Fiatsandcounting]

#4) I have a pretty good leak coming from the top bolts on the passenger side engine mount, so I imagine I need to carefully support the engine back those out clean everything and then RTV.

The other area that looks actively wet with fresh oil is at the very rear of the engine near the top – hard to get a really good view on that but is that likely the gasket for the cam cover?

I’m sure I have other leaks but maybe I can start with those two?

Agreed, if you see fresh oil in certain places after 10 minutes, then I'd start with those places. For the engine mount bolts, I imagine Permatex or the like makes a thread sealer (not thread locker), and that might be better than RTV. A few minutes with Google might answer that question.

On the oil at the very rear of the engine, that is likely one of two things: 1) the cam covers as you mention, or perhaps more likely, 2) the cambox end cover gaskets. Those end covers are each tightened by three 10mm nuts, and you could check to make sure they are totally loose. Snugging them up might help. For the cam covers, they usually leak towards the center of the engine, and oil either pools in those nooks and crannies in the top of the cylinder head or in the spark plug wells. Also check that the two bolts that secure the cam covers are tight. Not too tight as that can cause leaks. Perhaps hand tight, and then a quarter or half turn more with the appropriate tool.

-Bryan

[tdskip]

Good morning Bryan.

Will the two lower engine mount bolts support the engine adequately if I get a flat piece of wood / floor jack on the engine pan?

Any risk of the RTV/Sealant getting a loose glob of something into any oil passage way?

I've not dealt with this design before - British and German engineers are shaking their fists at the 124 right now - just want to be extra careful to no do anything dumb.

Thanks!

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Will the two lower engine mount bolts support the engine adequately if I get a flat piece of wood / floor jack on the engine pan?

Yes, but definitely use a broad piece of wood along with that floor jack. This will support the engine, but I wouldn't recommend it to lift the engine. However, one thought: Do you need to replace your engine mounts? You can do each one in turn, and then fix up your engine brackets and studs a tthe same time. To do this, you can loosen the single nut at the top of the engine mount, raise the engine just on that side, remove the bottom nut on the mount, remove the bracket, change the engine mount, fix all 4 studs, put it all back together, and then do the other side.

Any risk of the RTV/Sealant getting a loose glob of something into any oil passage way?

As long as you just apply the sealant carefully to just the threads of the stud before screwing them back in, you should be good. It doesn't take a of sealant. Make sure the sealant is compatible with oil and gas of course.

British and German engineers are shaking their fists at the 124 right now

Along with these fine individuals, I do too, sometimes. While many aspects of the 124 were very well designed for a car of that era, there are also a few bone-headed items that pop up now and then. It's funny: I can remove the rocker arm cover on my '69 Chevy truck while the engine is running, and it doesn't leak oil. However, if I stare cross-eyed at my spider, it leaks oil...

-Bryan

[tdskip]

Good morning - hope you are doing well.

Huh - went to remove those engine mount studs and the nuts on them came off but the studs didn't move. Tried double nutting them and nothing. Did my prior owner do something funky there?

I checked the torque on the cam boxes and head, several where under spec (yes, I used the correct sequence, or at least I think I did, grin).

Thanks!

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Did my prior owner do something funky there?

Let's hope they're not welded in... My guess is that someone used the permanent version of threadlocker, and while they can be removed, it usually takes heat and really cranking on it. Or some pretty aggressive chlorinated solvents to soften up the threadlocker, if you can even get them to wick up into the threads.

I guess at this point, I would really try and determine whether oil is truly coming out of those engine mount studs. Clean them up really good, and unless you see oil oozing out after the engine has been running, I'd leave them alone for now.

A large oil drip pan under the car might be a perfectly fine solution for the time being!

-Bryan

[tdskip]

Hey nate, thanks for the follow up.

The passenger side rear studs are definitely one of my oil leaks. I may try cleaning that area super well and running a bead of RTV around the joint where the mount meets the block. Bit of a hack but it’s leaking enough that it needs to be attended to.

Yes, I know, very low likelihood of success....

Are you working on anything fun today?

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Are you working on anything fun today?

But of course. Today I am straightening the bows of the convertible top frame on my '71 spider. Looks like the previous owner walked across the top at some point, wearing lead boots (Iron Man lives again, according to Ozzy and Geezer Butler). Sigh...

-Bryan

[tdskip]

Hope the frame straightened out OK.

Just wanted to give a quick update here. The oil leaks have been significantly reduced, but not eliminated.

The RTV hack on the passenger side engine mount reduced that leak by at least 75%, when I replace that mount I will more properly try to seal the stud if it still does not want to come out.

The leaks from the top of the engine are much better as well but I stil have some at the top rear and what appears to be from the top midsection above and behold the metal heater return line that hugs the block. The leak is above the block drain petcock.

I don’t remember seeing that area behind the heater return line being a common leak spot. It appears that the cam box re-torque helped quite a bit something else is still going on.

Had a bit of “excitement” on another test drive, new thread as a distance item on that to be posted.

Good morning all and hope you are taking care!

[GeorgeT]

Another area for oil leaks is the distributor shaft seal, they have been known to go bad.

[tdskip]

Good morning George, hope your Saturday morning is off to a good start.

My car is a 1968 and the distributor is on the driver side still, are there seals up top where it could mount on the passenger side that I should also be looking at?

Thanks!

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Sounds like you're making progress! As for the leaks, you may be getting down to just general leaks that inevitably happen on a 52 year old engine. I'm not saying they can't be fixed, but to get them totally right, it may involve removing the engine.

For the top rear leak you mention, that is likely either the rear cam box cover gaskets, or the cam box to cylinder head gasket. I would mention the cam cover gasket, but I think you've established that it's OK at this point.

As for the leak under the heater return pipe, that could be the exhaust cam box to cylinder head gasket, or the cylinder head gasket itself.

Yes, my '69 has the distributor down by the oil filter as well, and it's a common source of leaks. Mostly from the gasket that goes between the bottom distributor flange (where it sits on the block) and the subtle recess in the block where the distributor sits. This gasket is often missing, or just so old as to be useless. If your distributor internal seals are leaking, you will see oil under the distributor cap and down in the area where the spinning weights are.

Another very common source of leaks is the seal on the oil dipstick. Although I don't recommend this unless you like wiping oil off the side of your engine compartment, if you remove the dipstick and then rev the engine, oil will come spraying out of that hole. So, that rubber seal is critical. Get a new one, or in a pinch, I've tightened it up with taking a piece of electrical heat shrink tubing about an inch long, and using heat to "mold" that around the old seal, and this has helped. Again, not a long term solution, just a short term fix.

-Bryan

[tdskip]

Thanks, I definitely have a few things to check still.

There is a strange liquid falling from the sky right now, so going to have to wait a bit until I can uncover the car and jump back on it. Definitely need to get the driveshaft coupler replaced before using it again however .

Hope it’s been, all things considered, a good weekend so far