new variation on turn signals and hazards etc

[autospider79]

Im about to post an introductory post in general forum too.
Does a 79 have a separate hazard relay in addition to switch on upper dash and separate of the turn signal relays? Is it with relays under glove box?
I have the typical situation.
Slow turn signals that stop when brake lights go on, or when headlights on, hazards dont blink when engaged, button lights up when in outward position, off when pushed in.
All lights work and pretty bright
I have:
installed new 65 amp alternator
new hazard button
new flash/hazard relay
Created new ground for rear lights.
cleaned up battery connections in trunk
wire brushed sockets/cleaned circuit board for rear lights. 2x
cleaned up two ground pounds and the connections underhood 2x
cleaned ground pod by ignition
all new, appropriate bulbs
talked to the car nicely
Still, no turn signals when brake lights on, and or headlights.
All other electrical work right
Thanks

[autospider79]

OK, I'm going to go put in some relays.
Even with the headlights off and no big voltage demand, the turn signals eventually stop when braking and dont work when headlights on...and still no hazards.

[spider2081]

Its not uncommon for the signal lights to work slow when the engine is not running. Have you measured the alternator's output voltage???

could be low voltage. What is the voltage on the dark blue wire on the flasher relay when the signal lights are flashing.

[autospider79]

I did the brown wire fix yesterday and no change! All the lights are bright. turn signals to stay working when I put side markers on(headlight switch in middle position). But signals stop as soon as headlights go on. That seems like voltage drop. It is a replacement headlight switch. Will change that to.
Im thinking the new hazard/flasher relay i put in is wrong or defective. Dang internet. One of the usual fiat sites advertises a heavy duty model that doesnt suffer as much from voltage loss. Will grab that.
The new hazard switch seems good. I think i mispoke earlier about it. When in depressed position it glows with dash board lights when they are on. Dims with them as well. But when pressed and popped out.....nothing, no flashing lights. Does the 79 have a relay separate from the one behind ignition switch? dcfiats (R. Ridge) say "78-79 the wiper and hazard relay was moved from driver to passenger side " When I drop the tray there are 4 relays in a row, one has a red connector and relay in it has a red stripe on it. There is another large relay which i assume is for my auto trans.
Also, when I installed the stereo i used previous owners power wiring. It appears they are using the door chime or possibly interior light power. cigar lighter is intact and working. weird thing. With car running and drivers side door open radio get awesome fm reception. when i close the door............I barely get the strongest stations. Thinking coaxial cable is worn and touching somewhere . Or if they used the wires for door chimes opening and closing the door might effect that. When isat in car and just depressed button in door jamb, it didnt effect reception. Will disconnect and use short coax line and mini antenna and see if that changes. Will be back in afternoon with voltages.

[spider2081]

I am not a fan of the "brown wire fix" The added wire parallels existing wires in the car. It uses an unused terminal 30 on the ignition switch but that terminal is connected to the same switch contact inside the ignition switch. It is not using an unused switch contact as some state. What it does do is bypass a connector on the drivers side fender well that has the brown wire from the battery terminal of the starter solenoid to the ignition switch. This connector is sometimes the cause of the infamous "click" when starting. If it is kept clean and tight I see no need for the "brown wire fix"
The hazard flashers work on the "hot all the time" circuit fuse 9 the signal lights operate off of the "hot in start and run" circuit fuse 1. Fuse 1 is closest to the steering column. You might no be getting power from fuse 9 to the hazard switch.

You might consider joining mirafiori.com and accessing their library. In the library is a Fiat publication "Spider 2000 Electrical Diagnostic Manual 1980-1981. Your cars wiring would be similar to the 1980 Carbureted covered in that booklet.

[autospider79]

clarification. I just inspected the "brown" wire and connections nothing was too gnarly. I didnt even bother to put probes on it cause it looked good and does not seem to be culprit. ...... i just went out to check voltages again and could not get the turn signals to work at all. Last thing had done is unplugged and plugged in flasher relay. I have a fancy oem relay on the way from allison..
But,,,, battery reads 12.62, 14.6 when car running. 12.2 volts at rear tail light sockets when headlights on. that seems strong to me......... will get a reading off reverse lights when lights on too

[autospider79]

I will check volts at fuses then? 1 and and 9? I did replace all fuses a month ago.
Will double check.

[spider2081]

There is a long narrow white 7 pin connector C32 between fuse 9 and the hazard switch. It is located behind the dash above the radio. I think its unlikely its the issue as I think your would be having additional issues if it was partially connected.

[autospider79]

More voltages
light switch in off position. turn signal on I get 6.8 to 9 when blinking
side markers on and tail lights turned on; 11.xx to 12 at tail light, turn signal getting 6 to 8 and blinking
all lights on tail lights high 11, turn signals blink about 20 times 4 to 6 volts then nothing

brake lights on and nothing else at rear brakes get 11..8
same with side markers and tail lights on.
with full lights it drops to 9.xx

brakes always kill the turn signals. I'm guessing its because they are the last two traces on circuit?
Could I point to point solder them?
Get new boards? Ugh

[ORFORD2004]

Remove the driver socket and do your test with ground on the battery for the positive test and on the positive for the ground test. You will know if the problems come from the front or the printed circuit.
Also LED bulb? no good for flasher.

[autospider79]

I put black probably on ground used by tailights and at the base of the socket, not from the prong on bottom. Is that what you are saying? Use neg bat term touch prong on board directly. Will do tomorrow. Btw I found two in line fuses under dash. Red and white behind fuse box. Blue and white behind/ near flasher relay. Will check both tomorrow. I then head to Boston to send my 1st child to college for 1st time. Taking my gti, not spider.

[autospider79]

I put black on ground used by tailights and at the base of the socket, not from the prong on bottom. Is that what you are saying? Use neg bat term touch prong on board directly. Will do tomorrow. Btw I found two in line fuses under dash. Red and white behind fuse box. Blue and white behind/ near flasher relay. Will check both tomorrow. I then head to Boston to send my 1st child to college for 1st time. Taking my gti, not spider.

[autospider79]

UPDATE: after inspecting 2 in line fuses under dashboard 1 with red and black wire, another with a grey and 2 greens. Neither seemed fully pushed together, the turn signals now stay on when braking without headlights on. turm signals do not stay on with headlight and brakes on..........but we are getting closer. I will be out of town and unable to fuss with car until Thursday night.

[ORFORD2004]

I mean disconnect the tail light and do your test at the connector. And use your battery as reference. If your are connected to the negative side of the battery and you see 6V at the connector, you know that this wire have a problem.
Hope you understand.